AGFD news What would you think of a new online club for hunters?

[520HUNT]

I don't want to join anything, I just want to hunt!

[Chef]

I don't want to join anything, I just want to hunt!

 

 

Exactly why SCG exists.

So that you can hunt.

So that your kids and grand kids and their kids will have the opportunity to hunt.

 

To try and make sure our heritage is here for all, for as long as possible.

[520HUNT]

I don't need SCG to hunt! I did just fine before them and will do just fine without them now... Just more people trying to do good for people that don't want any help. Just more bureaucy...

[Chef]

That's awesome. I do hope you continue to do fine without, and I'm sure you will.

 

Bureaucracy exists wholeheartedly in every government organization, and is one of the things I hate the most.

I sincerely agree with you on that. Where you see it with the conservation groups is beyond me. To be honest, wrapping my

head around and understanding the legislative process and all the rules and regulations coming from Federal and state

levels has been the most difficult. Definitely not the most efficient way to get things done in my opinion.

 

I've been wanting to volunteer in a more involved level for a long time. I figured everyone was tired of hearing me complain

and that maybe I should try and change things if I didn't like the way they were being done.

 

I know that volunteering isn't for everyone, especially when dealing with a government agency, but I'm not holding you to anything.

I'm just happy that you are a hunter and shooter and sportsman that I have a little common ground with.

Plus, you probably vote the same way I do at the polls.

 

I'm trying to do good for wildlife more than anything. I'm sure it's appreciated by some.

[Swivelhead]

I don't need SCG to hunt! I did just fine before them and will do just fine without them now... Just more people trying to do good for people that don't want any help. Just more bureaucracy...

No need to join anything, getting good info 1st hand is the point. Internet hearsay is just that. Get informed and let the dept. and the commission know how you feel.

[Flatlander]

I was in attendance tonight and listened to what the G&F had to say. I have never before attended a Sportsmen Constituent Group Meeting, and I didn't have to join or register anything, I just showed up and said my piece.

 

Here are my takeaways:

 

1. The dept. will be implementing a new interface component to their website which will allow for each person to interact with the department individually and see the things they use most on their screen page. This is being implemented, is free to the public and should help improve the way we buy licenses, update payment, register watercraft, etc. This is a much needed update and should produce lower overhead and operating cost for the Dept.

 

2. The Dept. has gained authority from the state to break away from the state's IT provider and begin developing their own systems for the draw, etc. As others have tried to explain during draw troubles in the past, up until this time the Dept. has been required by the state to use the IT provider contracted by the state for all state departments. This has been the genesis of draw problems in the past. They are in the process of developing a new platform for the draw with the goal of bringing everything in house.

 

3. The "Club" or "Bundled services as they are referring to it is still conceptual, but the commission has asked them to implement something by 1/31/2015. I am still not clear what the goal of the club is, but from what I gathered it appears to be two pronged: First; To more fully utilize technology in the recruitment and retention of new hunters and Second; to develop a new revenue stream to help fund the commitments the Dept. has already made to technology i.e. the Portal or web interface page described in number 1.

 

4. Tag Surrender, this is a hot button issue with hunters, and for what reason I cannot figure out. The Dept would like to use this as an enticement for hunters to begin doing more online and thereby join their "Club" or "Bundled Services". For whatever reason tag surrender is omething that hunters in this state are showing they want, and the dept is trying to find a way to provide it. In my mind this service is useless. If their is an emergency I can (and have) already petition the Dept. and ask that my points be restored and the tag returned. Almost everyone else in attendance thought this was a great idea. It was noted that protections need to be put in place to prevent abuse of the system i.e. someone putting in on a party app and returning thier tag but not the tag of other party applicants is one example.

 

5. Issuance of surrendered tags. Everyone in attendance, including the Dept. seemed to agree that giving a priority to "Club" members for returned tags was a BAD idea. This is a bad idea and I will be shocked if the Dept. moves ahead with it.

 

6. early access to draw results, it seemed as though the department recognizes that it is unlikely that folks would find any benefit, because hunters can already see if they will be receiving a tag by checking credit card info. There is not a feasible way for the dept. to get the info out sooner than the credit card companies.

 

7. Other ideas were offered for "Club" benefits or incentives; most notably was access to draw odds and statistics via the portal. This, in my mind is a worthy benefit and the first thing that has been mentioned for whch I would be willing to pay. There is a market for this data and very few resources for obtaining it currently. I believe that constituents want the Dept. to improve on the level of information currently provided and the ease with which that information is obtained. If the department provided this at an added cost, It is my belief that many people would respond favorably, more so than allowing tag surrender or priority to receive surrendered tags.

 

Overall my feelings were this: AZGFD is working hard to find ways to better connect with new constituents. Hunter and angler recruitment is way down across the country and the facts are that if we don't find ways to make hunting more mainstream, our rights will be trampled and our heritage lost. Yes, this is an attempt for the Dept. to help fund a new project, and their goal is to make it a self sustaining project. If that means they provide added services at an added OPTIONAL cost, then great. I am in support of that. More than anything though I will say that there a re a handful of people working really hard to make sure the voice of sportsmen is heard by the agency responsible for managing wildlife. If no one else speaks up or voices a concern then nothing will be done. These meetings are the time to have your voice heard, this is not a commission meeting with commissioners trying to cram down their lunch during a two day solid meeting fest while hunters talk about what they want. this is one on one interaction with the people who are developing the program. There is an abundance of ways that this tool could be used to improve what we get from the dept. at limited additional cost. For instance, I know that in some units with access problems the Wildlife Managers have maps showing what gates are locked and which are open. These are currently only available by contacting the WM directly and asking for it. This portal could be a way to centralize these types of documents and off set the cost of maintaining them. Water catchment info could be published on the portal and accessed with a yearly subscription, things along these lines can be a great benefit to hunters.

 

Lastly, Mad Props to Allen, Hector and Stan who are out there trying to make a difference. Wildlife does not belong to any individual, it belongs to us collectively, and so it is necessary to have some ruling party to manage it. If we speak up, participate in the process and provide useful, relevant information, we can be a powerful force in helping to shape the way our state's resources are managed.

 

I plan to attend again next Tuesday at Bass Pro if possible. I hope to see many of you there.

[naturegirl]

Thank you for the recap. It's very true that more of us should attend these meetings, myself included.

 

My thoughts keep going back to hunter recruitment. I think it is up to us, the people out in the field hunting and fishing, to expose other people to the outdoors. My husband & I have introduced many people over the years to hunting and fishing. This ranges from kids to adults. I myself fall into this category and it was truly because of my continued GOOD exposure to hunting that I started hunting myself.

 

A couple weeks ago, we took a family to the lake with us. This was a first for the children (6 of them). One of the children's words exactly was " I feel like I'm in a different state on vacation." I thoroughly enjoyed watching the kids enjoy themselves and I enjoyed sharing some of my knowledge with them about various mountains, fish, sheep, eagles, etc. I believe the best chance we have for recruitment is ourselves and how we positively present hunting and fishing to others.

 

I don't need early access to draw results. I think it's fun watching my checking account for days. I truly feel like a kid at Christmastime. . I don't need to turn my tag in. If I can't make my hunt, then the tag gets wasted unless I donate it and that animal I may have tagged gets to keep on keeping on. I think our state system should be equal for all and not provide any advantages to people who pay money because hunting is expensive enough.

 

Is there an approximate range of what this type of program may cost a person to join?

[azelkhunter2]

Flatlander..It was nice meeting you last night...Im not sure what was lost in translation but what I took away from last nights meeting and what the wildlife organization I was there to represent stance was, is that under NO !! circumstance should a club member have priority over anyone who is not a club member, and that the tag should go to the next person in line regardless of membership. Dave

[coueshunter]

At this point, the game department is trying to upgrade their systems to be more in "tune" with all of us. They have come up with some ideas that are "Good" & "Bad" as defined by us the sportsmen. If we dont go to the public meetings and provide input, then we cant modify/change/improve the process. There were a total of 3 non-affiliated people at the meeting last night. We need more people to get out of their chairs and attend meetings to get the things done you want done.

 

1. One main point that I am almost positive the AZGFD will fix is that when a tag is surrendered, it will go to the "next person in-line". This would be fair and fall under the guidelines of "The North American model of Wildlife Conservation".

 

AZGFD is working on getting a customer portal system in place, and their timeline is quick, so any and all input from the public is very important. There is another public meeting at the Basspro store I believe on July 8th. Flatlander posted this info. Please Please Please attend if you want to make sure that this new upgrade includes what you are looking for. Allen Taylor

[stanley]

I don't need SCG to hunt! I did just fine before them and will do just fine without them now... Just more people trying to do good for people that don't want any help. Just more bureaucy...

 

Obviously none of us need SCG to hunt. SCG is not trying to do good for people that don't want any help. It's simply a group of folks who want to be engaged in the process and have their voices heard with regards to rules, regulations and programs of the G&F department. Also, it is definitely not more bureaucracy. It is a way to try to be engaged and try to understand the bureaucracy that already exists within the system. Really it should not be any big deal and should be benign to those who don't want engage in the process.

 

Thanks for the write-up and information from those who were there. As always, it was nice seeing a couple of familiar faces (and meeting a new person or two).

 

S.

 

 

PS: +1 on the NO priority! That was loud and clear feedback that the department heard.

[johnnie blaze]

I'm kinda curious as to how they believe that we need more hunter/fisher recruitment. Not saying that we shouldn't always try to recruit....but I see more hunters/fishers now then ever before. Just go to BPS or Cabelas on the wknd, not to mention any lake for fishing, opening morning dove hunting, archery elk, etc...

[Chef]

Thanks Flatlander for the great summary of last nights meeting with Scott Lavin from AZGFD. It was a good get together with a lot of back and forth between the constituents and the department. Overall, I do think that we reiterated some points that have already been posted here on the forums, and brought up some good ideas for the department to consider.

 

One thing I do think we all agree on is that the issuance of surrendered tags should NOT go to "club members" but to the person next in line. (or some other viable alternative such as this)

 

Another thing to note is that surrendered tags don't necessarily need to go back to the department, but any of the approved 501c3 organizations. Such as the ones we are all familiar with that assist wounded military, terminally ill youth, and others. One would get their bonus points reinstated and get a tax write off in the process this way.

 

It was great to see everyone again and meet new friends like Dave Bruns from the Az Deer Association, who has been doing a lot of leg work collecting real data for use in assisting the decision making process for the department. The ADA will be submitting a longer report full of ideas and comments to the department addressing the portal and proposed "tiered club".

 

Again, if anyone wants to attend any of the public meetings, there will be a few coming up. Primarily, next Tuesday at Bass Pro Shops, also Cabelas, Payson, Flagstaff, etc. Good way to hear first hand what this is all about and get your two cents in.

 

Thanks,

[Chef]

Naturegirl: Pricing has not been hashed out, and may be one of the hardest things to consider. If the price is too low, they may be shooting themselves in the foot after the dust settles and their real costs are higher than what they are charging. If the price is too high, it reduces the potential market considerably of those that may buy into the services.

 

Johnny Blaze: The department runs reports on the number of licenses/tags purchased for both hunting and fishing. Along with "comparing notes" with other departments across the country at various meetings/expos/etc. Hunter/fisherman numbers have been on a steady decline for quite some time across the country. Here in Az, we are losing more fisherman than hunters, but losing both at a regular pace. When you think about it, it's easy to see why, older sportsmen are retiring from the outdoors or simply dying off. Younger people have more/easier access to and get instant stimulation from technology than the outdoors.

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

"Another thing to note is that surrendered tags don't necessarily need to go back to the department, but any of the approved 501c3 organizations. Such as the ones we are all familiar with that assist wounded military, terminally ill youth, and others. One would get their bonus points reinstated and get a tax write off in the process this way."

 

Any process like this needs to be VERY carefully controlled. What if an approved 501C3 had the same intentions as the backers of HB2072 that was (thankfully) defeated?

 

OK, here is a scenario for the tag return. Say I've got max points for elk. With those I can get drawn for a trophy rifle hunt any year. I get an early unit 10 bull tag. Mr. X pays me $5000 cash under the table to "donate" the tag to a specific 501C3. Said 501C3 sells the tag to Mr. X or his wife or son or ??? for another $5000. I get my bonus points back plus the point as if I was not drawn. Next year, by definition I'm at the top of the heap again so I get an early rifle bull tag in unit 23. Wash rinse and repeat, over and over for years.

 

The rules need to be VERY tightly written to prevent all kinds of unforeseen abuse.

[stanley]

"Another thing to note is that surrendered tags don't necessarily need to go back to the department, but any of the approved 501c3 organizations. Such as the ones we are all familiar with that assist wounded military, terminally ill youth, and others. One would get their bonus points reinstated and get a tax write off in the process this way."

 

Any process like this needs to be VERY carefully controlled. What if an approved 501C3 had the same intentions as the backers of HB2072 that was (thankfully) defeated?

 

OK, here is a scenario for the tag return. Say I've got max points for elk. With those I can get drawn for a trophy rifle hunt any year. I get an early unit 10 bull tag. Mr. X pays me $5000 cash under the table to "donate" the tag to a specific 501C3. Said 501C3 sells the tag to Mr. X or his wife or son or ??? for another $5000. I get my bonus points back plus the point as if I was not drawn. Next year, by definition I'm at the top of the heap again so I get an early rifle bull tag in unit 23. Wash rinse and repeat, over and over for years.

 

The rules need to be VERY tightly written to prevent all kinds of unforeseen abuse.

 

Agree 100%!

 

This type of scenario (and several others) were hashed through as part of the feedback provided in the meeting last night. There is NO doubt that the tag surrender topic will absolutely need very careful/thoughtful consideration and oversight (if the idea even comes to fruition.....)! There are always people that will try to 'game' the system and the department is aware of that.

 

S.