mattys281 Report post Posted January 3, 2007 Hey Mattys281 and all members, the PSE x-weave arrows sound like a solid investment. What local clubs do you guys belong to? Where is the best place to purchase the PSE arrows? My problem is that I am starting all over again. I shot archery almost every night when I was younger. The club I belonged to was the Omro Bowhunters in Omro, Wisconsin. I did a lot of league and tournament shooting back then. I'm really looking forward to getting back into it, but right know all I have is my new bow. It's a Kodiak Outdoors Bow Logic 36, 60 - 70 lb pull with a drop away arrow rest. I've only shot two arrows out of it so far, just checking out the fit and feel at Sportsman's. I appreciate and respect the information I get from CouesWhitetail.com members. Thanks to all. Al We have a small archery club out in Superior that I'm a member of & we recently got a shooting range put together w/ targets out to 90 yards. I shoot there a lot. I sell the X-weave arrows for: Predators = $82/dz, Pros = $104/dz. I'm quite a bit under PSE's MSRP on those, but as they didn't list a MSRP for arrows in last years price guide, I marked 'em up on my own & since they haven't increase my wholesale this year, I see no reason to raise my price. Those prices are based on using AAE fletchings. If you want some of the fancier fletches like the NAP quikspins or something like that it would obviously be a few bucks more. I'm personally planning on buying some stiffer limbs for my Mach 12 after pig season & switching to some heavier arrows like the Easton ACCs. But that's only because I've promised myself an elk hunt this year, even if our draw makes it necessary for me to drive to another state, so I want to crank up my ft/lbs of energy. Anyone interested in carpooling to Idaho or Colorado? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikep35 Report post Posted January 3, 2007 Am I the only person left that shoots aluminums? Yes. Bob I'm also writing this on a typewriter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted January 4, 2007 Am I the only person left that shoots aluminums? Yes. Bob I'm also writing this on a typewriter I know a guy out in Superior who only shoots the 2512 Super Slams. Course he also refuses to upgrade from his 10 year old Martin that he totes, but if you'd seen his trophy room, you'd know that it obviously works for him. My brother also refuses to shoot carbons. There's still a few of you dinosaurs around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikep35 Report post Posted January 4, 2007 Well, I've got a 12 year old browning that shoots about 10 ft per second, and I shoot the aluminum logs, but after my first kill with it this past september, I'm gonna bite and get a bowtech.( And probably switch to carbons) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmergoo Report post Posted January 5, 2007 Well, I've got a 12 year old browning that shoots about 10 ft per second, and I shoot the aluminum logs, but after my first kill with it this past september, I'm gonna bite and get a bowtech.( And probably switch to carbons) You are going to love that Bow-tech.Thats the way to do it though,you must shoot a animal with what you have before you are allowed to purchase another bow. Which one are you going to get?I shoot the ALLIGIENCE,awesome bow and then they come out with the Guardian. On paper the Alligience is still faster ,but I have not shot the Guardian yet.Look at all the technology and numbers out there and you will see that Bow-Tech are the INNOVATORS.Have FUN choosing and let us know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikep35 Report post Posted January 5, 2007 Yesterday I was looking at the Tomkat, but I'm still not sure. I have a 27" draw length so some of the bows I've looked at are out. Either the draw weight is too long or the poundage isn't heavy enough. I shoot about 65 lbs. But I'm definitely going with a bowtech. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
galiuro mountain man Report post Posted January 5, 2007 This is a long one!! I have done a lot of testing with a shooting machine, spin tester with dial indicator and spine tester on which is better. I used top quality carbons and aluminums (one dozen each for this test, will try to test more during the summer). The aluminums were supposed to be straight to about .001" I could only find one that was even bent this much. The carbons were supposed to be straight to .001" also, I found two that were at .002". This was on full length shafts, and one of the carbons was perfect after I cut them down to 28", taking some from both sides, the other carbon and aluminum one that was bent to .001" still. At this point they were tied. Spine on full lenght shafts was a close one too, all of the aluminums were spined where they said they were. All but one of the carbons was perfect, the only one that was off ended up being the one with the .001" bend after cutting. I found the stiffer side on all of the arrows and put that down (same side the cock vane is on)to start and shot groups bare shaft out of a shooting machine at 25 yards and tuned the nocks to get the tightest groups with aluminums and carbons. This was hard because of the two different types of arrows, they needed the bows set up slightly different. I first started with the aluminums in my Outback, and the carbons in my Switchback. Once I got them all tuned I set each bow up to shoot the other type of arrow to verifythe arrow nocks were tuned for the best groups. I glued on fletchings, I put the cock vane as close to the stiff side of the shaft as I could according to the nock, most of the arrows didnt need much nock tuning, so it was fairly simple to figure out how I should glue them on. I had to wait till the next day (aluminum arrows fletches had to dry), then went to 40 yards and shot 100 times with each type of arrow. The aluminums grouped better than the carbons, carbons 1 1/2" and aluminums 1". I was grouping by shooting a paper target and pulling arrows out of it between each shot, and a group was 6 arrows. This went on for 2 days, one day aluminum and the next carbon. I went to work for the next four days. I continued to finish the next hundred shots with the bows swiched. This is where it got interesting. The aluminum groups were starting to get larger. I remeasured all of my setup on my bow, nothing changed. I then swiched bows again, and the aluminum groups were still getting larger. They ended up at 2 1/2" for a small group, and 3" for a larger group. The carbons were still 1 1/2" to 2" consistantly. What happened? I rechecked straightness, all arrows were still as straight as they were when I started. I checked nocks, all good. I then checked spine, I found all of the carbons to still be within 2 percent of advertised, but the aluminums were between 2 and five percent of the advertised. After the arrows were shot so many times, it was actually shooting the spine out of them, the aluminums were getting weaker. The flexing of the shaft at every shot was making them weaker. I decided to test this more so I put away the carbons and shot the aluminums, by hand so it was faster, untill I had to go back to work (I had a job with a weird schedule). I probably shot them a couple hundred times each. Remeasured spine, but not much changed, so the aluminums spine weakness got to a stopping point. What I found was the aluminums were more consistant with what was advertised right out of the box. Carbons are more durable, but I didnt notice the spine issue when shooting by hand, I am not as consistant as my shooting machine. I dont think anyone can notice this shooting by hand, I just thought it was interesting. Oh the cabons weighed in at 372 to 376 grains and the aluminums were 420 to 423 grains, the carbons FPS was 301 Outback and 304 Switchback. Aluminums O 292 S 296. The carbons ar quite a bit louder and the bows vibrated more, but that comes with speed. I didnt have any consistant way to test penetration, but the both seemed to be close. Which ones did I choose? Carbons, for the simple fact I can put them together faster. I dont have to wait as long for the glues to dry. I know there are fast setting glues for aluminums also, but I havent had very good luck with them. Sorry I was so long winded!!! GMM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted January 5, 2007 GMM: I've also noticed that fast-setting glues don't work near as well on aluminums. I usually use AAE fletches & the AAE glue, unless someone requests different. I think it has to do with carbon being a more porous material, so the glue gets a better grip. The other side of that coin, though, is that it's also a heck of a lot tougher to scrape the glue of carbons when you need to replace a fletching. As for quality, I've not seen the footage myself, but hear that there is some highspeed video that shows the flexing & distortion of arrows being shot. Supposedly, the carbons stabilize a lot quicker than aluminums once off the bow. Next time you feel like testing stuff, let your aluminums set in you freezer for a couple hours & then check the spine. Compare that to room temp arrows. Alluminum has one of the highest coefficients of expansion (if not the highest) out of any metal. It changes size a lot with temp variations, so I'd expect you to see those arrows be both stiffer & more brittle when cold, where as carbon can range from far below freezing to hundreds of degrees & not change mechanical properties. It's a lot more stable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
galiuro mountain man Report post Posted January 5, 2007 I will try that next time. probably next summer when I can get a hot arrow from outside, and a cold one from the freezer and compare. Then I will do the same for carbon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted January 5, 2007 Interesting about the spline on the carbons. Similar to finding the high side when rolling your own fly rod. The word for the new carbon weave arrows is that this spline is minimized. I surmise that most archers are not good enough to notice the orientation of the spline, and would be better served to take lessons from a pro to improve form, technique and mental focus. True about the aluminums fatiguing and losing their stiffness. Good info, GMM. RR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elmergoo Report post Posted January 5, 2007 Yesterday I was looking at the Tomkat, but I'm still not sure. I have a 27" draw length so some of the bows I've looked at are out. Either the draw weight is too long or the poundage isn't heavy enough. I shoot about 65 lbs. But I'm definitely going with a bowtech. Hey Mike I know this has nothing to do with the thread but I was down at the Sportsman Wharehouse down in Tucson and they had a closeout on bows piled up against the counter in their boxes. I noticed a Tomcat for around 5 hundred. Dont know the draw length or any thing, but it might be worth a phone call.I believe the Alligience, Tribute, and the Tomcat are the only ones you can inter change smooth or speed cams. Check it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikep35 Report post Posted January 8, 2007 Yesterday I was looking at the Tomkat, but I'm still not sure. I have a 27" draw length so some of the bows I've looked at are out. Either the draw weight is too long or the poundage isn't heavy enough. I shoot about 65 lbs. But I'm definitely going with a bowtech. Hey Mike I know this has nothing to do with the thread but I was down at the Sportsman Wharehouse down in Tucson and they had a closeout on bows piled up against the counter in their boxes. I noticed a Tomcat for around 5 hundred. Dont know the draw length or any thing, but it might be worth a phone call.I believe the Alligience, Tribute, and the Tomcat are the only ones you can inter change smooth or speed cams. Check it out. I'll definitely take a look at that. Thanks alot. Thats not a bad price. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muleybull Report post Posted January 8, 2007 My 2 cents, carbons.......mainly because they'll last longer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
