elkaholic Report post Posted April 21, 2014 rifle - muzzy - archery it's not size that matters its shot placement- period even the biggest baddest most powerful around - doesn't work like its suppose to if its not in the right spot seen bulls drop from a 243- they stood for a few seconds - didn't even know they was dyin seen them run away with 3 - 300 win mags rounds in 'm and not even slow down Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckhunter Report post Posted April 21, 2014 not a lot of us get the chance to shoot at elephants. But its shot placement and distance with kinetic energy together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azelkhunter69 Report post Posted April 22, 2014 AZkiller, I responded to you on the other thread and voiced my opinion that the most important thing is shot placement, regardless of what you are shooting. I firmly believe that, as most do. That said, I get what you are saying. In general terms, bigger gear for for bigger animals. Common sense right? We choose our weapons based on what we are hunting. I 'm not going to shoot rabbits with a .300 Win Mag and at the same time I'm not going to choose to shoot elk with a .22 rimfire even though I'm sure I could kill it if I hit it in the right place. The problem most people have with your argument is that you just can't lump everyone in together and blame "light" archery gear for wounded animals. It has more to do with the person shooting and the situation than it does the gear. There are so many factors that go into choosing what you will be shooting. A young kid or a small woman isn't going to want to get beat up by a .300 Win Mag throwing a 200gr. bullet. They are going to be afraid of it, they will flinch, and they will make a poor shot, possibly resulting in a wounded animal. Bigger is not always better. I think sometimes people go bigger to provide a safety net thinking it will help if they don't make a good shot. What they should do is shoot something they are comfortable with and can shoot accurately. I would have absolutely no hesitation to shoot an elk with a .243 shooting a quality controlled expansion 100gr. bullet. As a matter of fact, my oldest son shot a cow in the neck with .257 Roberts with a 100gr. bullet and she dropped where she stood. Couldn't have killed her any quicker with a .375 H&H. On the flip side, I used to work with a guy that was the self proclaimed "worst hunter in the world" and I couldn't tell you how many elk he wounded with a .300 Win Mag. Once again, shot placement is the key. I know what you really want to talk about is archery gear though. Just wanted to illustrate some points using gun lingo. As far as arrows go, I am probably part of the reason you started this thread because on the other thread I said I am guilty of falling into the "speed game" and going with a light arrow/broadhead combo. Problem is, you don't know how well arrows, broadheads, bullets etc. work until you use them. I was shocked that my broadhead didn't come out the far side when I killed my bull last year. It was a quartering away shot at only 27 yards and I hit him right where I was supposed to. I got both lungs and he died within seconds but I can only assume that the arrow/broadhead didn't go through due to lack of weight. As I said before, I will switch to heavier arrows next time and see what happens. Point is, even using "light" gear, I killed him just as quick as someone shooting a heavier arrow/broadhead because I practiced for months, waited patiently for the right shot, and made a good shot. There is much less room for error with a bow. I wouldn't count on breaking a bulls shoulder with an arrow where I would have the utmost confidence that I could shatter it with a gun. I think it all boils down to patience, knowing your limitations, waiting for the right shot, and being accurate. There's my 2 cents....or as long as this ended up being...my $20.02. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seldom Drawn Report post Posted April 22, 2014 So I thought I would start a post at the request of others for those of you who would like to explain why you use such light gear for elk. I get the speed part, trajectory and all for distance, but if you don't have any weight behind it its a moot point. A 220 swift is one of the flattest shooting, fastest 22 caliber cartridges there is. I wouldn't want to shoot a deer with it let alone an elk. A 375 H&H is one of the slowest. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything with it. I agree with those that say the most important thing is placement, if you have penetration as well all the better. I don't' know how you can break a shoulder blade with an expandable scalpel let alone a breast bone or humerus or even a rib. I just hope that the guys with archery tags are exploring all of there shooting options and not just going with the new craze. There is a reason you don't see a lot of guys flickin' sticks at rinos and elephants, they shoot them with heavy massive solid bullets. http://archeryreport.com/2009/11/arrow-kinetic-energy-momentum-archer/ I'm not sayin it can't be done, I'm just sayin it can be done better. I don't want to see a couple dozen, "lost elk" posts. And for the record, I think and bullet under 200gr is too small, again, not sayin it can't be done. Some of the best poachers of all time were great shots and killed bigger bulls then most will ever see with 22 LR it doesn't matter what you use if you can place the bullet or arrow where it needs to go,it doesn't really matter you guys really get caught up with new technology.who the heck needs a 200 grain bullet to kill an elk our kids have killed 7 elk now bulls and cows with a 100 grain bullet,if the perfect shot isn't there even with a cannon don't shoot.hunters today just have to let it fly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chompy Report post Posted April 22, 2014 Elkoholic is correct last year I shot my bull with a 270 and a 130 17.99 box of Remington core locks at 405 yards one shot and he didn't go 2 feet it's all shot placement. Now if you want to shoot reckless with whatever gear your using then yeah heavier the better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmbbulldog Report post Posted April 22, 2014 Found out today I drew a NM elk rifle tag. Will be shooting a .270 with a 140 grain bullet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZkiller Report post Posted April 22, 2014 I'm not sayin it can't be done, I'm just sayin it can be done better Do you guys read stuff or just get pissed if someone doesn't agree with you? Go back to last year and look at all of the elk in the lost and found box. How can that be fixed? I said placement is the most important thing. What is the answer? I am not an archery hunter because I don't have the time to dedicate to practice needed to be successful. Do you all have any ideas to reduce the number of lost elk? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmbbulldog Report post Posted April 22, 2014 Im not mad, just letting you know what I will be shooting. The last 3 elk I have seen killed were all by muzzleloaders. I think my 140 grain bullet out of a .270 will be packing more punch than any of the muzzy loads. If I am fortunate to take an animal, I will post results. Same with my archery elk tag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr.smith Report post Posted April 22, 2014 Do you all have any ideas to reduce the number of lost elk? Education. I suspect most people don't realize how low an elk spine dips as it approaches the neck. A lot of so called 10 ring "double lung" shots go over the spine. Aim low. Shoot him in the heart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted April 22, 2014 I see this thread as pointless and can only hurt the hunting community.. Everyone has their ways of getting it done, some will agree, some will disagree. I think before you make BOLD statements that "archery hunters wound more than rifle hunters," You should at least have some facts to back this up. I could argue that my 300wsm 180gr bullet has 500 more ft/lbs of energy at 500 yards vs. your 375H&H with a 250gr bullet, but I am sure you already knew that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
resolute Report post Posted April 22, 2014 I see this thread as pointless and can only hurt the hunting community.. Everyone has their ways of getting it done, some will agree, some will disagree. I think before you make BOLD statements that "archery hunters wound more than rifle hunters," You should at least have some facts to back this up. I could argue that my 300wsm 180gr bullet has 500 more ft/lbs of energy at 500 yards vs. your 375H&H with a 250gr bullet, but I am sure you already knew that. +1. Someone owes me 5 minutes of my life back for reading this post Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azelkhunter69 Report post Posted April 22, 2014 I'm not sayin it can't be done, I'm just sayin it can be done better Do you guys read stuff or just get pissed if someone doesn't agree with you? Go back to last year and look at all of the elk in the lost and found box. How can that be fixed? I said placement is the most important thing. What is the answer? I am not an archery hunter because I don't have the time to dedicate to practice needed to be successful. Do you all have any ideas to reduce the number of lost elk? Come up with a magic pill that helps people stay calm, come up with a way to stop the wind, remove all tree branches from the planet, don't let people hunt that don't practice, get rid of bad luck.. You could say a million things. Plain and simple, there are too many variables that you can't control. Unfortunately, there will always be some wounded animals. I'm not pissed at you either but you need to be realistic and realize your "bigger is better" attitude isn't going to solve anything. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted April 22, 2014 The rifle in that picture is a .257 weatherby, shooting a tiny 100 gr barbes ttsx. That cow dropped so fast at 235 yards I thought my brother missed her! Now, did I have "better" rights for him to use? Yes, several.... .277", .284, & .308" rifles but he shoots the .257 the best. It ended in no game lost or wounded and an elk that was dead before she hit the ground! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prowlerMan Report post Posted April 22, 2014 No offense intended here but you may have bit off more than you can chew here..... I'm not sayin it can't be done, I'm just sayin it can be done better Do you guys read stuff or just get pissed if someone doesn't agree with you? Go back to last year and look at all of the elk in the lost and found box. How can that be fixed? I said placement is the most important thing. What is the answer? I am not an archery hunter because I don't have the time to dedicate to practice needed to be successful. Do you all have any ideas to reduce the number of lost elk? Dead is dead to me...how much "better" can u make dead? Don't matter whether you win by a inch or a mile...a win is a win. All it comes down to is practice and knowing what your skills and weapon of choice are capable of. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted April 22, 2014 The only way I see to really improve at anything is experience. Unfortunately gaining experience often means making a mess out of something others may do nicer and neater. For what its worth I think a lot of the lost animals are from people poking and hoping, which comes down to an ethics question that im not interested in batting around. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
