AZkiller Report post Posted April 21, 2014 So I thought I would start a post at the request of others for those of you who would like to explain why you use such light gear for elk. I get the speed part, trajectory and all for distance, but if you don't have any weight behind it its a moot point. A 220 swift is one of the flattest shooting, fastest 22 caliber cartridges there is. I wouldn't want to shoot a deer with it let alone an elk. A 375 H&H is one of the slowest. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything with it. I agree with those that say the most important thing is placement, if you have penetration as well all the better. I don't' know how you can break a shoulder blade with an expandable scalpel let alone a breast bone or humerus or even a rib. I just hope that the guys with archery tags are exploring all of there shooting options and not just going with the new craze. There is a reason you don't see a lot of guys flickin' sticks at rinos and elephants, they shoot them with heavy massive solid bullets. http://archeryreport.com/2009/11/arrow-kinetic-energy-momentum-archer/ I'm not sayin it can't be done, I'm just sayin it can be done better. I don't want to see a couple dozen, "lost elk" posts. And for the record, I think and bullet under 200gr is too small, again, not sayin it can't be done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ready2hunt Report post Posted April 21, 2014 I shoot a 180gr 30-06 bullet for elk. Are you saying (in your opinion) that bullet is too light for an elk? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pine Donkey Report post Posted April 21, 2014 Good post killer. There is a lot that goes into recovering a bull. I agree with you about heavy gear, but there is so much more to it. Heavy arrow/broad head, quality bow, practiced-confident shooter, weather conditions, terrain, vegetation, clothing of the hunter, distance, angle of the animal and shot placement. This Spring a guy I know found a dead bull in 27. He made a post on here trying to find the hunter. He received over a dozen PM's from CWT members who lost a bull in 27 this past year...none of them were the same bull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
couesmagnet Report post Posted April 21, 2014 I've seen plenty go down with a 165 grain head. 200 grains is over kill. That 220 swift would do a heck of a job with a dome shot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tjhunt2 Report post Posted April 21, 2014 I confuse easily and this post is no exception confusing me even more. You start out asking why hunters use light gear on elk. You then go into a spill about why you wouldn't shoot an elk with a 22 caliber even through it has the speed and accuracy. I never once ever read on cwt about anyone saying they would hunt elk with a 22. Then you say you wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything with a 375 H&H. Now I'm getting confused and I'm thinking to myself he is comparing oranges to apples. Then all of a sudden a light bulb goes off in my head, that doesn't happen often, as I continue to read on thru your post. As soon as I read there is a reason why you don't see guys flickin sticks at rinos or elephants and you don't want to see a couple dozen "lost elk" post it dawn on me what I think you are trying to say in my opinion. What I take away from this is you think all archery hunters and anyone shooting less than 200gr bullets are the most cause for the "lost elk" post. Since most of the elk hunters either fall under achery hunters or gun hunters using less than200gr bullets you are probably right only because they make up the majority of elk hunters. You certainly have a right to your opinion about the "lost elk" post but don't throw the majority of us hunters under the buss. imho TJ 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buffhunter Report post Posted April 21, 2014 Grain weight is a must for bigger animals for sure. With today's equipment for elk I would say a stiff 400-500 grain package shot out of a 60-70# bow would be sufficient for a pass through on a bull elk (fixed blade broadhead) some expandable heads will get a pass through also. But with an expandable head I would stay at the top of the draw weight if not higher and at the top of the grain weight if not higher also. That was a very good article but bows really suffer performance wise when you start to get over 700 grains. Sure if I was only going to shoot 30-40 yards max I would shoot a 700+ grain arrow but I shoot further then that..... (60yard max for elk) I have shot 1400 grain arrows out of my hunting bow 85# x force GX at a whopping 188fps..... and it actually pushes the bow back at you...... So there is a happy medium..... IMHO you need to shoot well tuned equipment, practice a lot, and put the arrow where it needs to go. 95% of any bull elk truly double lunged with any quality broadhead should go down in under 100 yards.... but there are always those acceptions where you shoot an animal that just has that drive.... and ive seen it happen...... God has built some impressive creatures and some are just amazing what they can take...... GOOD LUCK TO ALL and as one of my best hunting partners says "SHOOT STRAIGHT AND LEAVE A GUT PILE"!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted April 21, 2014 Women & youth hunters have been killing elk with 40 lb bows & light arrows for a long long time. Put the arrow in the right place, you have a dead elk. Put it in the wrong place, you've got a big problem on your hands. Same goes for other animals. Once again, I don't think the choice of equipment is 1/2 as important as the skill & decision making ability of the person launching the arrow, or bullet for that matter. 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tjhunt2 Report post Posted April 21, 2014 I confuse easily and this post is no exception confusing me even more. You start out asking why hunters use light gear on elk. You then go into a spill about why you wouldn't shoot an elk with a 22 caliber even through it has the speed and accuracy. I never once ever read on cwt about anyone saying they would hunt elk with a 22. Then you say you wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything with a 375 H&H. Now I'm getting confused and I'm thinking to myself he is comparing oranges to apples. Then all of a sudden a light bulb goes off in my head, that doesn't happen often, as I continue to read on thru your post. As soon as I read there is a reason why you don't see guys flickin sticks at rinos or elephants and you don't want to see a couple dozen "lost elk" post it dawn on me what I think you are trying to say in my opinion. What I take away from this is you think all archery hunters and anyone shooting less than 200gr bullets are the most cause for the "lost elk" post. Since most of the elk hunters either fall under achery hunters or gun hunters using less than200gr bullets you are probably right only because they make up the majority of elk hunters. You certainly have a right to your opinion about the "lost elk" post but don't throw the majority of us hunters under the buss. imho TJ Ok, now that I'v had a couple more cups of coffee I see I could have left the last sentence off my above comment. I take most of what people say with a grain of salt and think I'm pretty easy going but when someone refers to archers flickin sticks my hair stands up on my neck like a junk yard dog protecting his bitch. Sorry about that AZkiller. I just took it the wrong way and got caught up in the moment. from a stick flickin archer, TJ 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted April 21, 2014 Fwiw, I know a member here who just used a 220 swift for a musk ox and it collapsed, dead at the shot. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kd300wsm Report post Posted April 21, 2014 SHOT PLACEMENT 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MT_Sourdough Report post Posted April 21, 2014 You dog gone sons of stick flickers! Sorry, I just wanted to say that at least one time. It's kinda fun, I like it. Like a lot of things in life, I suppose the biggest deciding factor has to be the choices people make. I can honestly say, Arizona, in general has a higher grade of hunter. You just can't go down to the local store and buy a 12 pack of beer, a deer tag and a box of ammo here in AZ. That thins a lot of the yahoos out right off the top. The amount of dedication that an Arizona hunter puts into his or her pursuits is exceptional compared to other places. As far as ones choice of weapon, I am a little biased. My idea of light and fast for elk is my 300gr cast bullet doing close to 2300fps, That's super fast and flat shooting compared to, say, a 450gr bullet doing 1700fps. And it is plenty effective to as far as you wanna shoot, a whole 250 yards. Whhoooooeeeee!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZkiller Report post Posted April 21, 2014 Not intending to insult anyone. Reading the broad head post with all of these guys shooting 100gr heads brings back memories of last years posts, lost elk, found elk, saw elk with arrow in azz. They are likely fine out to 30 yds broad side. I just have the overwhelming impression that the majority of archers, obviously not the majority of the ones that read this site research and practice diligently, will think they have a flat shooting bow and can kill that elk at 60 or 70, when in reality they get no penetration. As I said shot placement is the most important, I feel equipment is equally important. I've seen plenty go down with a 165 grain head. 200 grains is over kill. That 220 swift would do a heck of a job with a dome shot. Your right, I forgot to cover the head shooters. If your good enough you may be able to use an air rifle. Fwiw, I know a member here who just used a 220 swift for a musk ox and it collapsed, dead at the shot. Obviously it can work, I just don't feel its optimal. BTW, Muskox are smaller than elk. I confuse easily and this post is no exception confusing me even more. You start out asking why hunters use light gear on elk. You then go into a spill about why you wouldn't shoot an elk with a 22 caliber even through it has the speed and accuracy. I never once ever read on cwt about anyone saying they would hunt elk with a 22. Then you say you wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything with a 375 H&H. Now I'm getting confused and I'm thinking to myself he is comparing oranges to apples. Then all of a sudden a light bulb goes off in my head, that doesn't happen often, as I continue to read on thru your post. As soon as I read there is a reason why you don't see guys flickin sticks at rinos or elephants and you don't want to see a couple dozen "lost elk" post it dawn on me what I think you are trying to say in my opinion. What I take away from this is you think all archery hunters and anyone shooting less than 200gr bullets are the most cause for the "lost elk" post. Since most of the elk hunters either fall under achery hunters or gun hunters using less than200gr bullets you are probably right only because they make up the majority of elk hunters. You certainly have a right to your opinion about the "lost elk" post but don't throw the majority of us hunters under the buss. imho TJ Not trying to throw anyone under the bus, just trying to explain my thoughts on taking game responsibly. Not all archery hunters are lumped in there, just the ones that throw 350gr arrows at elk at 70yds. As I said placement is the most important If it doesn't penetrate it doesn't matter though. I shoot a 180gr 30-06 bullet for elk. Are you saying (in your opinion) that bullet is too light for an elk? Everyone has to make their line somewhere, mine is 200gr. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHALE Report post Posted April 21, 2014 When I first started archery hunting elk I thought as you and almost bought some 125 grain broadheads. I thought I would need a heavier broadhead for elk until I spoke with an old man who had been hunting elk longer than I had. He said 100 grain is good it will keep your speed up and you will do fine you don't need a 125 or heavier broadhead. Well I listened and have shot and recovered one bull a year for the last 5 years. I lost last years arrow cause it passed through at 55 yards and kept going. Just saying don't knock the 100 grain fixed broadheads IMO Stick Flinger Out 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe Report post Posted April 21, 2014 You are entitled to your own opinion killer, even if it is completely wrong and has nothing to back it up. I will keep using 100 gn broadheads and taking elk for years to come. I will also continue using 160 gn bullets on elk and killing them for years to come...as will the majority of elk hunters out there. Good luck with your slow butt arrows LOL!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted April 21, 2014 humm what gets more penatration a 400gr fulmetal jacket at 305 ft per second. or one of those mosquito throwers "guns" with a 200 grain bullit at 3000 ft per second??? Humm if i remember right from my hunter education class 30yrs ago ,that kenitic energy is much higher with a stick flicker "bow" then a moquito throwers and the arrow goews thru the box of sand and the bullet doesn't hummm, lets not pick on us hillbilly stick flickers when you have bullet problems. were sportsman not wonders. my opionion 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
