Help on AZ strip info

[az_shooter]

I've been building bonus points for a Dec whitetail tag but now I'm wanting to change for a mule deer tag and keep building points for a strip unit. Question is, what is the best strip unit to go for?

[AZ8]

13B

[seek100plus]

13 B

[BOHNTR]

Another vote for.........13B

[wildwoody]

its a secret

[az_shooter]

Yeah I figured it was gonna be a flood of people saying 13B, I was just wondering if someone had a good argument for 13A, but it seems pretty unanimous. Haha

[Camofreak]

13b hands down! 13a has been becoming better, and still has awesome bucks! But 13b hands down has more bigger bucks. I'd take either tag!

[couesmagnet]

Both are equal if its a good antler growth year. 13a is easier to find the deer, as they are concentrated in high numbers in a few places. I had 13b archery in 2011 and in 33 days straight of scouting and hunting i never saw a buck over 180 from the road. After killing a 215 buck with my bow i drove up to 13a to visit some friends, and it was amazing to see a bunch of big bucks from the road in 1 day in 13a. To each his own, but 13a is easier in general.

[Becker]

13A vs 13B

 

The problem with 13A is that the good deer habitat is all scrunched drown into the south west corner of the unit. A good portion of the unit is flat open grass land. That being said there is still tons and tons of deer country. But what generally happens is everyone crowds down into "good" stuff around Trumble and Logan. Condenses the hunters somewhat. A few years back if you all remember, and I don't remember the exact numbers, but a TON of the big bucks in A got killed. It was ridiculous. 220+ bucks were getting taken day in and day out. A couple factors played into this but the major one was a late Storm that caused an unusual green up in the valley bottoms. It pulled a huge portion of the does down out of the thick stuff and the big bucks followed. That upper age class got almost wiped out. The unit is still having to recover from that. Obviously the next season with all those older bucks gone, the next round of up and comers were targeted. That coupled with a couple sub par antler growth years has made A a little less desirable to a lot of people.

 

13B is a unit that is deer country from one end to the other. It spreads the hunters out a lot more and thusly a lot of those biggest bucks slip through the cracks every year. That being said there are a few key areas that always hold big monsters and people get clumped up chasing the same bucks but if your heart desires it you could hunt in B without seeing another person.

 

Regardless of any of that, big bucks are taken every year in both units. The main thing to keep in mind, there are not huge monsters under every tree. It is not a hunt for the faint of heart. If you REALLY want to harvest one of the BEASTS that call the strip home you better be ready to be tested. I have had my butt handed to me more than once up there and have left wondering what had happened to me.

[az_shooter]

Becker,

 

Thanks for the info, how many tags have you personally had in 13B?

[forepaw]

Becker,

 

I know the year you are talking about, and somewhere I have a CD with photos of some of those bucks. What you describe makes sense, and indicates it may take a number of generations for the buck numbers to catch up anywhere close to where they were that year. I have always thought of 13A as a sleeper unit, positioned as it is between 13B and 12AW, with good bucks but nowhere near the PR and hype of the other units.

 

forepaw

[couesmagnet]

The year everyone is trying to figure out when all the giants were killed is 2010. They killed 15 to 20 bucks out of 13a over 200 in 2010. What you don't realize is that they also killed just as many in 13b that year. Everyone told me not to put in in 2011 cause they all got killed in 2010. There were several bucks killed in 2011 in both units that went over 200 again. What most people don't realize is that a 3 year old deer can hit 200 on the strip, so the mentality of saying the bucks are shot out still from 2010 and even 2011 is kinda false. They killed a 285 buck and several others since then, and most aren't any older than 5 years old. That means all the bucks that were born in 2010 and 2011 could potentially be big bucks right now. the single most important factor on the strip is moisture , not age. Age plays very little into the size of the antlers on the strip. My buck from 13b in 2011 had a 210 typical frame and i was told by all he was only 5 years old at most. I shot a kaibab buck years ago that goes 221 and he was aged at 4 years old by the game and fish. They could kill every 200 inch deer on the strip on any given year, and guess what if it rains really hard the next year, there will be several giant bucks there the next. People that tell you it's shot out in either unit based on the previous years harvest don't really understand the strip or it's dynamics. What they should be saying is it hasn't rained and even the 7 year old bucks are under 200 this year, and the young bucks are 175 instead of 200. Also neither is a sleeper unit as everyone from georgia to california knows the name of either unit, and draw odds will show this. Don't listen to people saying either unit could be shot out, cause that's not thge way to look at things, it's all about the rain up there period.

[452b264]

Dont ignore that open grassland/sage or antelope country, there was a 230 ish buck killed in that area a couple of years ago. Not as many deer in that type of habitat, but there are fewer hunters.

[Becker]

Couesmagnet, I agree with you that SOME bucks are genetic freaks and can reach 200 inches at a very young age (3 yrs old). I also agree that moister plays a huge role. However just because it rains a lot does not mean bucks will be huge. There are multiple factors that have to line up. There has been a really wet year since 2010 on the strip and we did not see huge antlers that year like everyone thought was going to happen. They do need moister for big antlers though no DOUBT. How much moister, when? thats a whole other topic. No matter what 200 inches of Mule Deer Antler is HUGE. However the odds of that happening in a 3 year old deer are not that great IMO. A Major point that I think everyone can agree on is that not every single deer grows up to be a monster 200 plus. While the strip is a special place with good genetics there is still a vast majority of the bucks that will never come close to being that caliber of deer. What that percentage is that will be huge bucks is I don't know 5%, 10%????

 

I disagree with you that AGE is not a factor. It doesn't matter where you are AGE plays a key role in antler size. It has been proven in study after study that AGE is one of, if not THE biggest factor, when it comes to antler size. If you don't want to read studies just look at all the TV shows of guys hunting Eastern Whitetail. Those deer have it as good as can be, food plots, water, supplemental feeds, mineral licks. Most of the guys shooting those big deer don't do so until they are at least 4 and usually wait until they are 5. Coues deer don't reach their full potential until 6 to 8. Plenty of proof on this sight about the coues, just look at some of Jim Reynolds shed collections from bucks over their lifetime. Most of your proven examples of BIG deer involve deer that are 5 years old, one being 4. If that is the real case (which I agree with you on) then the bucks REALLY need to be 5 to reach that 200 plus inch mark. Those that were born in 2010 will be expressing their genetics and showing what they are capable of growing this year. Every year past that 5 year mark the potential to go extremely huge into the 220's and higher only gets better. The 285 buck that you mentioned..... the year before he was not even close to that big. He absolutely blew up into a giant that year. WHY, IMO he was 5 years old or older and was able to express what he was capable of.

 

With all that being said and I am only talking about 13A, if you look at the 2010 year, a vast majority of those 5 year old PLUS aged bucks got killed. Those were not the only deer killed though. Lots of people are thrilled with shooting a 160 to 190, so a bunch of those got wiped out as well. It really boils down to a numbers game. How many bucks are actually alive in 13A. That number, whatever it is, is spread out through age classes with the youngest bucks accounting for the majority, and those 5 year plus bucks being the fewest. If you wipe out the entire upper class (like 2010), and also 1/2 of the 3 and 4 year olds, (because the strip is generally full of TROPHY hunters) what happens the following year? There are not going to be nearly as many 5 year old bucks. Math would say about 1/2 as many. So the next year with 1/2 as many 5 year old plus bucks, those get targeted heavily, and with there only being half the number of the monsters after 2010 MORE people settle on the 3 and 4 year olds.

 

The reality of the situation is that after 2010 in 13A you had a far less chance of seeing a MONSTER buck. FAR FAR less. I don't think you can argue against that. The numbers of them just were not there. You CAN"T take out that high percentage of the trophy bucks and expect it to bounce right back. Couple that with some dry years and you are even worse off. So then guys were counting on the FREAKS, those young bucks that can explode to do just that, and some did, and some of those old bucks did not get killed because lets face it not EVERY SINGLE OLD buck was killed. So for a couple years 13A has bounced along with still some giants getting killed. The unit HAS to recover from what happened in 2010. That won't happen in just one season (and DIDNT) because hunting continues. Bucks have to slip through the cracks for a couple years to get that higher number of giants back up. And with as good as hunters are these days that is taking awhile.

 

The proof of all this in the major outfitters up there. They really have cameras on every single water source. There are not many bucks that they do not know about and 13A has really been down on the numbers of BIG bucks. We will see what this year has in store for the A side, we are all hoping it is finally bouncing back to pre2010 status.

[couesmagnet]

Becker, nice write up and over all i agree. The reason why i would rather have moisture than age on the strip is because of what i saw in 2012 verses 2011. I had my tag in 2011 and i had over 15 bucks over 190, and at least 5 to 6 that went between 200 and 225. Almost all these deer made it thru the 2011 season. The next year in 2012 i was back up ther again and every one of the buck was down 25 or more inches, but still another year older. 2012 was a horrible rain year wise when compared to the banner years of 2010 and 2011. That was when the light bulb when off for me, cause this was a direct comparison to the year before which was wet so to speak when there were tons more big bucks . This proved that even though the bucks were a year older in 2012, and a lot of the buck on my cameras in 2011 were 3 to 5 years old, they actually significantly reduced their antler growth due to lack of moisture. This was a direct comparison to age verses moisture content in my eyes, and moisture had clearly won out to age. There are plenty of 3 to 5 year old bucks on the strip that were 1 to 2 years old in 2010 and 2011 that made it thru. Based on this fact, if we got lots of rain , all of these bucks could potentially go over 200 or much higher if we had rain. The 285 buck blew up far more because of moisture content than age in my opinion. If that same buck would have been killed even 2 years later in 2012 he would have been 40 inches or more smaller even though he was 2 years older than when he was harvested at 285. A 240 buck in 2011 would have been lucky to have gone 205 in 2012. Moisture trumps 2 to 3 years of age every day of the week in my opinion if its a wet year. The strip hasn't seen the moisture levels it saw in 2010 and 2011 since then, and this is pretty much the only reason the outfitters aren't seeing a bunch of big bucks any more on their cameras. Without the rain they wont see many till it rains, and then the big bucks will grow like rats and another banner year would ensue. I know most of the outfitters and have seen their camera comparisons of bucks shaving 15 to 40 inches in 2012 and 2013, and these deer are 1 to 2 years older than when they were much bigger in 2010 and 2011.