squaring bonus points

[SunDevil]

UT changed their system a few years ago. In the past you had to choose one species to apply for. Antelope, trophy elk or trophy deer. after you drew that species you had to sit out 2 years before you could apply for that species again. now you can apply for all 3 but after you draw you have to sit out from that species for 5 years.

[1uglydude]

UT changed their system a few years ago. In the past you had to choose one species to apply for. Antelope, trophy elk or trophy deer. after you drew that species you had to sit out 2 years before you could apply for that species again. now you can apply for all 3 but after you draw you have to sit out from that species for 5 years.

 

When they first made that change it was only for non-residents, and residents were still limited to one genus per application year for LE hunts. Do you know if they now allow residents to do the same?

[Snapshot]

Preference points like Colorado. You get drawn one year, you go to the back of the line the next.

[SunDevil]

I know a UT resident that drew buck antelope last year and he told me he has to wait 5 years before he can apply for buck antelope in UT again. he primarly hunts WY anyway so no big deal for him.

[cbryant11]

Heck i would gladly wait 5 years ots better than the 10-12 i have been waiting

[Swivelhead]

I believe squaring BP's is about as fair as it gets. It's not complicated. Everybody still has a chance to draw, a big plus.

[gotcoues]

I think Sheep tags should not be brought up in this conversation. Your more likely to die before you get one and that will not change no what what system is used unless you are close to max points and have the years to wait. Too many applicants for so few tags.

 

I do not apply for premium tags anymore unless it is first choice ONLY, with my second choice being a more viable option to improve my draw odds.

 

If a person has 10 bps he would get 100 assigned random numbers and he would get to keep the lowest one which would be his place in line for the draw. A person with 3 bonus points would only have 9 random numbers assigned to them and again, they would get to keep their lowest number for their place in line for the draw. A huge advantage goes to the higher BPs rather than the current system that goes one for one on your BPs for the amount of numbers you are assigned.

 

Squaring the bonus points would simply award a higher % of random drawn tags to the higher end BP people and a lower % of random tags to the people in the lowest BP count. One good point to keep in mind is people with higher bonus points are applying for much higher quality hunts and/or premium tags and this change won't affect the easier to draw elk tags hardly at all. People will still draw their late rifle bull tags, late archery bull tags and cow tags with the average wait time being about the same. Everybody has heard stories about the guy who has drawn early archery bull over and over and over like it was nothing and the guy who has waited over 6 or even 8 years for the same tag. Squaring points would simply put, make those stories harder to find.

 

Sitting out for one year only helps the chances for hunts you can draw every other year or possibly 3rd year consistently (not many people are complaining about these draw odds anyway) and it would obviously decrease revenue by losing $13 for every application fee by any person who is required to sit out.

 

The bonus point system is an excellent system that rewards people who are unlucky and continually improves their odds. Squaring the bonus points would just strengthen the concept and give more weight to the people who have waited the longest or are in the "unlucky" club.

 

A good example is I was out hiking w a "bear enthusiast" this weekend. We both applied for the same bear tag. I drew it on my first try with only a hunter education BP, so I had one try for my random number which decided my place for the bear tag drawing. He told me he had 4 BPs going into the same draw which would have given 16 random numbers and he would of kept the lowest one to use in this particular hunt draw if we squared bonus points. With the current system he had 4bps so he got 4 random numbers assigned and got to keep the lowest one for the same bear tag draw. Instead of his odds being 4 to 1 against me, wouldn't it had been more fair for him to have 16 to 1 odds against me considering he has waited 4 years already and I haven't waited at all???????

 

Please learn about squaring points and let's give a helping hand to the unlucky ones!!!!! They truly deserve the tags and have waited the longest.

[pwrguy]

I think Sheep tags should not be brought up in this conversation. Your more likely to die before you get one and that will not change no what what system is used unless you are close to max points and have the years to wait. Too many applicants for so few tags.

 

I do not apply for premium tags anymore unless it is first choice ONLY, with my second choice being a more viable option to improve my draw odds.

 

If a person has 10 bps he would get 100 assigned random numbers and he would get to keep the lowest one which would be his place in line for the draw. A person with 3 bonus points would only have 9 random numbers assigned to them and again, they would get to keep their lowest number for their place in line for the draw. A huge advantage goes to the higher BPs rather than the current system that goes one for one on your BPs for the amount of numbers you are assigned.

 

Squaring the bonus points would simply award a higher % of random drawn tags to the higher end BP people and a lower % of random tags to the people in the lowest BP count. One good point to keep in mind is people with higher bonus points are applying for much higher quality hunts and/or premium tags and this change won't affect the easier to draw elk tags hardly at all. People will still draw their late rifle bull tags, late archery bull tags and cow tags with the average wait time being about the same. Everybody has heard stories about the guy who has drawn early archery bull over and over and over like it was nothing and the guy who has waited over 6 or even 8 years for the same tag. Squaring points would simply put, make those stories harder to find.

 

Sitting out for one year only helps the chances for hunts you can draw every other year or possibly 3rd year consistently (not many people are complaining about these draw odds anyway) and it would obviously decrease revenue by losing $13 for every application fee by any person who is required to sit out.

 

The bonus point system is an excellent system that rewards people who are unlucky and continually improves their odds. Squaring the bonus points would just strengthen the concept and give more weight to the people who have waited the longest or are in the "unlucky" club.

 

A good example is I was out hiking w a "bear enthusiast" this weekend. We both applied for the same bear tag. I drew it on my first try with only a hunter education BP, so I had one try for my random number which decided my place for the bear tag drawing. He told me he had 4 BPs going into the same draw which would have given 16 random numbers and he would of kept the lowest one to use in this particular hunt draw if we squared bonus points. With the current system he had 4bps so he got 4 random numbers assigned and got to keep the lowest one for the same bear tag draw. Instead of his odds being 4 to 1 against me, wouldn't it had been more fair for him to have 16 to 1 odds against me considering he has waited 4 years already and I haven't waited at all???????

 

Please learn about squaring points and let's give a helping hand to the unlucky ones!!!!! They truley deserve the tags and have waited the longest.

Got Coues I pretty much agree with everything you stated, except I think squaring would apply to sheep tag applicaions as well. It would weight the tags availible in random drawing (excluding bonus pass tags) a little more in favor of those that have waited the longest. Most of the top tags are going in the bonus point pass anyway so if you are not on top of the bonus point pile you are not drawing those tags, but there are still a pile of sheep tags that go in random draws. I agree with you on sitting out a year after drawing a tag, it is statistically insignifigant.

[gotcoues]

I agree, but there are so few sheep tags, I don't the moral would improve over time as it might for elk and antelope. I whole heartly believe it will tighten up the average wait time for every hunt while still leaving the chance to get lucky so people get right back in.

 

It might shift some people into easier to draw hunts after drawing a premium tag as well to improve weights times and balance things out.

 

I definitely think all BPs for every draw should be squared and I have liked that concept ever since it was explained to me yrs and yrs ago.

 

The AZ draw is a very well thought out process. If you don't really know how it works, I guess complicated could be a word used to describe it. But, I believe it is a very logical and fair system that could use a little improvement based on identical principles already in use.

[Swivelhead]

I am not a fan of waiting periods whatsoever. Waiting periods are "feel good" measures for the unlucky and are statistically insignificant.

 

Assume for a moment AZG&F did start waiting periods, G&F likely would allow the non-eligible to purchase bonus points during the draw cycles they were not eligible applicants. This move would force ineligible applicants to purchase a license and BP's just to stay competitive in future drawings. If G&F is taking my money at least give me an opportunity however slight, at the prize.

 

Odds have a strange way of hitting the "average." Drew 12B late 3 out of 4 years in the early 90's, now sitting on 13 deer points. Drew 27 EAB 3 out of 4 years 02,03,05. It's fun to be "that guy" but it's now been 9 years since.