squaring bonus points

[idgaf]

I think that would be the equivalent of inflation hitting the bonus point system. Our system is not the best, but it is better than anything else out there. There is fine line g&f is dealing with we have the biggest elk because of their conservative nature when it comes to tags we also have the most call for demand because of this conservative nature. We yell when their is to many hunters and then we yell when we are not one of those hunters.

[DesertBull]

Isn't it slready complicated enough? Just leave it alone. If anything.....get rid of it altogether. NM and Idaho don't use it. Put your name in the hat. If you don't get pulled then tough $***t.

[gotcoues]

Technically, you are correct, there will be some added "lucky factor" to the people who are applying. But, it will have no effect on the average wait time for a premium tag, if the average wait for early archery bull is say 5 to 7 yrs, how will waiting one yr change that? This thread is about squaring bonus points. The G & F obviously needs MORE revenue, not less. At best, that idea will succeed in decreasing revenue/increasing tag prices. I believe the concept of squaring bonus points will slightly decrease the average wait time on PREMIUM hunts by increasing the odds at the upper end and decreasing odds at the lower end.

 

Honestly, even squaring points could decrease revenue because it tells the guy at the bottom you have less off a chance to get lucky and it may be a deterrent.

 

Why should people who want to hunt elk in the lowest demand hunts that most of us don't even want, have to sit out. Makes no sense and I don't want the government to decide what is premium, and make people sit who drew a "premium" . That should be reserved for the people who apply to decide, supply and demand. Also, once "they" latch on to the word premium, those hunts will surely double in price!

 

Just take a look at NM

 

Again, sitting out will achieve nothing

[AverageJoe]

I agree gotcoues... but it will help draw odds simply because each year there will be 20,000 less applicants. i was just letting everyone know that the one year wait IS being currently discussed by g&f. It may or may not happen but we will find out eventually.

[twowindy]

I agree with desert bull leave it alone or get rid of the bonus points don't make it any more complicated than it is.Most people don't understand how it even works the way it is now.

[wildwoody]

i get it now

[1uglydude]

/>I agree gotcoues... but it will help draw odds simply because each year there will be 20,000 less applicants. i was just letting everyone know that the one year wait IS being currently discussed by g&f. It may or may not happen but we will find out eventually.

There are 5000 applicants for premium hunts that have 25 to 100 tags. On those hunts you're only removing 25 to 100 applicants the next year, so odds are only improved by 0.01% for those hunts. There are less than 500 "premium" elk tags offered in any year. How does punishing the 19,500 other guys who are fine wth late season bull and cow tags justify increasing odds by 0.01% for guys who are already resigned to waiting many years?

[naturegirl]

My husband was drawn and successful 6a early bull archery 2012 and then drew 2013 6a late archery (tag not filled). Our very good friend drew 2011 6a early bull archery (was successful) and in 2012 drew early bull archery 6a again (tag unfilled).

 

Is this luck or ??

 

I support a year wait if you draw an elk tag. I'm not lucky like some people so I need all the help I can get.

[Becker]

Like 1uglydude stated, sitting out a year isn't going to improve odds to make any difference. I don't care what odds are I want at least a chance every year. Its a lottery after all. I am however kind of interested in the squared bonus point idea. I'll have to look into that some more.

 

What the whole situation really amounts to is that the bonus point system is starting to get clogged up. If you look at bonus points its a pyramid. The top little portion being max point holders, bottom being those starting out with one point. With such few tags for say sheep as an example, it is going to be almost impossible for people starting out to ever get a tag. There are too many people in that pool and when it finally gets to the max point pool (top of the pyramid) Odds are going to be pretty dang small regardless. Same goes for some of our "Premium Elk and Deer hunts". I don't really think the system doesn't work BUT we are getting to the point where there are so many people in the upper end that odds are decreasing even when you are at the top. I don't know what the best answer is if any. Like some have stated perhaps leave it alone. You are either lucky or not. And for the record I am the unlucky type. Only had 1 Elk tag my whole life so far and that was like 6 years ago

[ylclaret]

It's seems to me that squaring bonus points would help clear up the current "clogging up" issue. It would probably take a couple of years and in those couple of years it would be very hard to draw a tag for anybody who doesn't have many points. Someone mentioned that squaring bonus points wouldn't do any good because everyone else's points would be squared as well but just because everyone's points are squared doesn't mean it won't help the draw in the long run.

[SunDevil]

for UT, if you draw a premium tag (antelope, trophy elk, trophy mule deer) you can not apply for that type of hunt for 5 years.

 

other people have also suggested increasing the 20% bonus pass to 50%.

 

both of these would reduce "point" creep which is the root problem.

[1uglydude]

for UT, if you draw a premium tag (antelope, trophy elk, trophy mule deer) you can not apply for that type of hunt for 5 years.

 

other people have also suggested increasing the 20% bonus pass to 50%.

 

both of these would reduce "point" creep which is the root problem.

 

Please identify which deer and elk hunts have problems with "point creep" for RESIDENT hunters.

[SunDevil]

I am not 100% positive but I would speculate antelope, early rifle bull elk, early archery bull elk, Kiabab MD and Strip MD would all fall into that category.

[1uglydude]

I am not 100% positive but I would speculate antelope, early rifle bull elk, early archery bull elk, Kiabab MD and Strip MD would all fall into that category.

 

To be fair, I think edited my question about the same time I think you were responding. Bison, sheep, and pronghorn all may have a creep problem. The last time I checked, all the other hunts only have the issue for non-residents. When I get some time I will look at it again. The 10% non-resident cap makes it look like creep is happening on the basic draw reports, but when you drill down into it you see that it doesn't impact residents.

[Outdoor Writer]

I agree gotcoues... but it will help draw odds simply because each year there will be 20,000 less applicants. i was just letting everyone know that the one year wait IS being currently discussed by g&f. It may or may not happen but we will find out eventually.

 

The sit-out garbage was used a long, long time ago, like in the 1960s or early 1970s. In fact, if I recall (Bill?) it was three years for elk, sheep, and pronghorn. They did away with it when it proved to be statistically insignificant, even with three years worth of sucessfull apps sitting out.