JOEDKILLA Report post Posted April 4, 2014 Facts get in the way of the Dollar$$$$$! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZwest16 Report post Posted April 5, 2014 With all due respect Wardsoutfitters, i believe Gotcoues said it right. The reason that you are fighting this uphill battle is due to personal financial reasons. the reason the hunt dates have changed is because the G&F feels that the deer in unit 29 are being over harvested. Of those numbers that were read off, how many of the successful hunters were your clients? I remember hearing a similar discussion stemming from the G&F banning the use of baits other than straight salt. i know that the deer in unit 29 have been corn baited in your hunting areas for so long, that when someone would park near the feed sites and rattle a bucket that deer would start showing up out of the woodwork. this disrupts the natural habits of deer and they become dependent on human intervention. if the corn baiting was not so prevelant prior to the ban, i believe that the hunt dates would never have changed in the first place. what has honestly put a damper on success rates? is it the shorter seasons, or the ban of bait? Wow, and you call yourself a hunter? You must work for G&F, because you are just as good as spreading lies as them. Did you take a class from G&F? If you have proof of this rattling a bucket, show it to us, and if not "go crawl back into the hole you came out of!" Classy response... Even though I may not agree with everything GreyGhost posted doesn't mean you need to attack him personally... And to the argument for proof of the rattling bucket it doesn't matter. Wards was doing everything legal at the time so if that was or was not happening its not the point. The point is to try and get back as much hunting opportunity as we can. Steve thank you for the info and numbers on the unit in reference to the harvest data. I will be contacting G&F in reference to this topic and I've never set foot in Unit 29. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowhunter4life Report post Posted April 5, 2014 This same closure with 29 also effected others like 22, 23, 42 and other units. The main reason why they closed the following units and others was due to archery success hitting the 20% cap based on rifle hunter success. The same year G&F implemented the removal of hunting opportunity for December and some January they then also implemented mandatory archery deer harvest. My understanding was to prove how many deer were harvested to prove their assumed projected deer harvest. What they found was their best guess method was actually different when they had the true archery harvest numbers. So in January 2013, they pushed and obtained the bait ban.......Because again they believed that deer in 29, 22, 23 and other areas that had "baiting" accounted for 50% of the archery success. So what was the next line item that was presented after the bait ban was approved???? Yep, we no longer need mandatory archery harvest reporting.... So why was this???? Because it was never about the deer harvest, it was about personal agenda's to remove a hunting method without any factual scientific data performed within Arizona wildlife. Steve, One reason why they do not have the 2013 data is they removed the mandatory harvest requirement, they are now performing their best guess method. I think you need to show the rifle hunter success and show the comparison based on archery success. This was the main reason for the lost archery hunting opportunity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mklong40 Report post Posted April 5, 2014 Imagine what G&F would do if all outfitters were as successful at their job as Wards in regards to Coues hunting down south? Not bashing GF, they have a tough job. Seems to me that mandatory reporting, like other states, is the easiest solution to implement. I want more hunting opportunity like everyone else, however chasing an agenda (if thats truly what GF did) based on Wards success that affected everyone else is nuts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wardsoutfitters Report post Posted April 6, 2014 I spoke to a person at the department on Friday; I will not mention his name. I mentioned , My biggest issue here is the department did not wait to see if removing the December opportunity would have a impact on harvest % before removing the 1/2 January opportunity. I questioned the fact that the department removed the December and 1/2 January without waiting a year to get harvest data to support their decision. I was told I was right and this is something that needs to be addressed but at this point they are not willing to change the proposed dates until guidelines are changed. We have to fight this; the unit you hunt is next guys if we keep allowing them to make decisions without factual data. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnie blaze Report post Posted April 6, 2014 Just playing devils advocate.... Are you concerned about the deer population.... or your business? Scenario...... AZGFD reinstates all archery hunts back open, but doesnt allow outfitted hunts. Only reason I'm saying this is not because I root for AZGFD, but because your comming off like a greedy businessman. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted April 6, 2014 That's kind of a silly question. Of course he cares about the deer population, because without it, he would have no business. Maybe you should ask the same question to AZGFD... if they really care about the deer population why do they continually increase rifle deer tags? Or maybe they are just greedy??? 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wardsoutfitters Report post Posted April 6, 2014 Johnny I would venture to say that I do more for game managment in the areas we hunt then most do in a lifetime, Of course I care about the population, I have four children and they all will be hunting in a few years, and With out game to hunt I would be out of business. Lance hit the nail on the head. If the department cares so much then why do they keep increasing tags. If you keep a close eye on tags you will notice when they reduce one they raise another. Do you really trust the department to manage our game when they kill one of the few big cats in the state , or when they release sheep into a lion infested area? come on were trusting them to manage our resources!!!! the department has a hard time making things right even when they know they are wrong, Now they are trying to allow night hunting of coyotes in December and january , this will really screw the guy that is trying to hunt specific bucks , when guys are out spotlight and calling at night during their archer deer season. Again this really only effects ARCHERS. Not to mention this will be a law enforcement nightmare. you archery hunters better speek up about this also. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted April 6, 2014 over harvest is not the problem G&F have been fabricating hunter success for yrs. just like the fly over herd counts - no way to get accurate info from one pass and return from any unit and then use that to calculate the population talk to the people who live there - pick any unit - they just laugh at the #'s posted by G&F most say they never see any G&F personal in the field. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naturebob Report post Posted April 7, 2014 Manditory Harvest report is needed. G&F doesnt listen to the public. In AZ. not enough people go to meetings at all. Even if they did they would not get listened too. Here in North Dakota a ton of hunters show up at meetings,and there aint no population here.. It might make a difference. Evryone wants to hunt but doesn't want to lobby when needed..SPeak up guys. Attend meetings. They prob. don' even read Emails........BOB! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted April 7, 2014 GreyghostIf you truly believe that rattling a corn bucket would make the deer arrive your well, just misinformed, To set the record straight we at wards outfitters didn’t even utilize corn to attract deer, and we never used timed feeders, so whoever is giving you this information is completely making things up, Well lying to you to be exact, If deer are being over harvested in 29 then why are they not reducing rifle tags??? The reason they wont lower the rifle tags is very simple...........THEY WANT THE MONEY!!!!! They get the money from the archery hunters any way. Just go to another unit. The rifle hunters will get their tags, and the G&F gets the most amount of money they can get out of that unit just like 34A. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted April 7, 2014 If any of you actually believe our Game and Fish department uses facts or science in making their decisions, I have some ocean front property for sale in Unit 34a. AZlance I must have missed it! And I thought I knew that unit, where is it? lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted April 7, 2014 over harvest is not the problem G&F have been fabricating hunter success for yrs. just like the fly over herd counts - no way to get accurate info from one pass and return from any unit and then use that to calculate the population talk to the people who live there - pick any unit - they just laugh at the #'s posted by G&F most say they never see any G&F personal in the field. My buddy and I sat during the Jan. hunt and watched the helicopter buzz the mountain range we were glassing for over 20 minutes. He told me that he had read some where that the G&F would be doing surveys in the unit. Why the F&%! are they doing surveys during a hunt??????? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonecollector Report post Posted April 7, 2014 They did the same in unit 27 in Jan Elkhunter1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
