750 - 1000 wolves planned in Az; meeting planned this weekend

[reganranch]

my grandpa always told me: There are very few problems in this world that you can't fix with a 30-30 and a shovel"

Your Grandpa sounds like a very intelligent man, that I could get along with.

[Alpinebullwinkle]

I fully understand what Flatlander has stated and fully agree that the AGFD needs to have a seat at the table for the wolf management program. By having a voice and sharing rational input, hopefully AGFD can somewhat minimize negative consequences we are already experiencing and those future consequences which we expect will only worsen due to this ill-advised program. This program, initiated by the radical 10% that seems to be running our country in more ways than just environmental, has gained support from another 50% or so of urban folks that are naïve on the subject and fed untruthful information that goes unchallenged by AGFD, and too often by our local conservation clubs. That is the travesty I see here. Wolf reintroduction sounds right and feels good to most people that are uninformed of the consequences of reintroduction. Most people do not understand why the wolves were eliminated by man in the first place, as the Arizona population growth increased exponentially. This growth continues and only worsens the root cause of the wolf's demise. I understand that due to the heavy hands of the feds wolves may be here to stay, but if common sense is not incorporated into the equation we soon will have no hunting and the next efforts required in a decade or so will be reintroduction of elk and then deer. I surely will involve the curtailment of hunting as we currently know it. This is where we need more open and honest communications from our AGFD and also more open communications and support from state wildlife groups.

 

The wolf reintroduction program went forward with the expressed goal of only 100 wolves for the ultimate goal. Now that we are nearing that goal wolf advocates with no regard for their public credibility are now calling for an increase possibly up to 1,000 wolves. This goal is unsupportable without wiping out our wildlife resources in Arizona and eliminating hunting all together. AGFD with their voice at the table need to have a backbone, educate wolf advocates and the general public of the consequences of such an increase. We need to assist AGFD with our wildlife organizations or join one if you are not already a member.

 

Another sad story with a strong parallel to the wolf issue is what AGFD allowed to happen to most of our valuable streams in unit #27. A native fish reintroduction program was initiated in the 1980's with the goal of only poisoning 3 of our streams and reintroducing only native trout in those 3 selected streams. Naturally they selected some of our best watersheds of Bear Wallow, Fish Creek, and KP Creek that held great populations of rainbow, brook and brown trout that I might add reproduced on their own very nicely and created tremendous fishing opportunity for the public. Somehow this limited program secretly expanded from 3 to 15 (or more) of our creeks in unit #27. Thanks to this failed effort we have been deprived fishing privileges in these affected streams for most of the last 30 years. AGFD also now only stocks non-native trout species that cannot reproduce in lakes and maybe a few selected streams. When I challenged the AGFD on how the native reintroduction program was expanded from 3 to 15 without public knowledge they answered to me that they did so to achieve a federal funding quota!!! I wish that more outdoor enthusiasts understood what has transpired here because the wolf reintroduction program sounds like it is going down the same path with unintended future consequences that the public just does not understand. AGFD needs to be held accountable for this fishing blunder and hopefully we do not see a re-run of this movie with the wolf program. Your voices need to be heard!!!!

[111]

Do Wolves like Hamburger with a few supplements mixed in?

[Xnt]

Well said, Mr. Bullwinkle.

 

May I suggest you write that for the newspaper? You just might inform some readers of the Arizona Red Star.

 

Thanks

[Chris]

1000 Wolves.....really? Anyone hear of Montana? Thanks 111, I'm sure your on the right track.

[Bugler]

OK folks I am the writer of the original thread on MM. I dont get on here much or there as I work so much and dont have much time to spend on these places as id like to.

The question of the 750 to 1000 wolves is true. I was at the original meeting with AZ G&F, some legislators, other state dept directors, tribal heads, cattle growers and cattlemens assoc reps etc. G&F reps who im not going t name at this point but are at the head of the table confirmed everything i wrote.

The USFWS and wolf advocacy groups DO have a plan to put that many wolves int this state, the north Kaibab WAS mentioned as being a part of this plan as well as southern AZ. Game and Fish biologists said "this state cannot afford this umber of wolves." Adding that it would decimate the deer and elk herds. It is no disputable at this point because I am telling you this is what happened. I work for the state and was there at the meeting. Im not going to get into the intricate details as to who and why i was there at this point, if you have any questions about me you can ask Allen Taylor if I'm credible or not.

I am just as passionate about these issues as any one . Im just tryign to get everyone on board with one another n en effort to create a group able to put up a fight. I have no pull other than in my job and that is next to nothing. Im a public servant. Now it is up to you to organize your conservation groups with cattlemans assoc and growers and get the heavy hitters in the legislature to act. There is a formula. What is is I don't now yet but its there somewhere.

JD

[sjvcon]

Tell me where to sign up and with what group that will actually make a difference and I will do it.

 

This Agenda 21 thing is something I have been hearing a little about, and clearly I need to read more on it. There are nefarious powers at work, both within this country and outside of it, that want to see the US taken down a peg. Almost ALL of those powers want the guns removed from the hands of the folks who know how and when to use them ... and that my friends is US ... the American Sportsman/Outdoorsman.

 

JD ... thank you for posting this. I believe what you are saying, as I have heard this more than once. It is very concerning, and WE CANNOT LET IT HAPPEN.

[coueshunter]

Here is the latest update. As elk society is working with most all wildlife groups, cattle growers, land users, counties AZGFD etc. To develop this agreed upon plan. The plan is in draft stage waiting lon agreement from New Mexico and a couple others. Steve Clark has been working very hard to get agreement for the plan so we as sportsmen/land users don't have a federal plan dumped on us. The plan will be out in the next couple of weeks. The attempt is to agree on a wolf number that is much lower and biologically sound than the Fed numbers. Steve is trying to balance numerous needs and I applaud his hard work. Go to Arizona elk society website and volunteer to help since elk numbers will be most affected by wolves. Allen Taylor

[reganranch]

Allen so it's safe to assume the wolf re-introduction is inevitable, and cannot be stopped at this point?

[Flatlander]

This is so bad

[AZ8]

Allen so it's safe to assume the wolf re-introduction is inevitable, and cannot be stopped at this point?

 

Wolf reintroduction occurred in 1998. The only question left to all the players: how many can the state of Arizona sustain?

[wildwoody]

none!!!!!!!!!!!!

[coueshunter]

As forlorn stated, 're-introduction already has happened. What we are fighting for is to control the process, amounts, management. If we don't write our own plan then the Feds will push their plan on us. In addition there will be lawsuits against from groups that want thousands of wolves. We need a plan that all constituents buy off on, one that is biologically sound and legally defensible. This is a tough issue and one that hunters should not sit on the sidelines for. Everyone needs to get more informed and more involved. Join some group and volunteer. Allen Taylor

[Alpinebullwinkle]

As a resident of Alpine, unfortunately I have had a very close opportunity to monitor and experience the consequences of this ill-advised wolf reintroduction program. Our elk herd has continued to decline steadily since the inception of the program. Even though unit #27 elk tags have been increased in some areas the last few years (very questionable justification IMHO) the overall tag numbers for the unit are down significantly when compared to the early 1990's, prior to the addition of these so called wolves. Unit #27 cannot support any additional wolves without further reductions of elk hunting priviledges. Obviously this is one of the hidden agendas for wolf advocates, with the ultimate goal eliminating hunting all together, and keeping more people out of our national forests. This is why when I heard of the obsurd proposal to add more wolves than the initial goal of 100, I mentioned somewhat "tongue in cheek" that since unit #27 cannot support any additional wolves, we should therefore target Tucson and Phoenix for additional government dog reintroductions. After all, wolf advocates are quick to state that wolves were here long before humans, which ultimately caused their demise. Well I'm sure wolves inhabited Tucson and Phoenix well before the population explosion! Introducing wolves to urban areas, rather than forcing our beautiful rural areas to suffer all the negative consequences of reintroduction, would at least help educate the uninformed 50% of the population about this ruthless killer. When urban folks start losing some of their valued pets like we have, perhaps they might become more educated and objective on this issue. It concerns me greatly that one of the strategies currently being discussed by our side is a plan that would "attempt to agree on a wolf number that is much lower and biologically sound than the Fed numbers". There are many truthful testimonals highlighting the decemation of the elk herd in Yellowstone National Park, and I might add that was in the absence of hunting.

 

No more wolves should be tolerated in unit #27. That is the only responsible and acceptable plan that should be considered IMHO!!!! The only additional wolves that should be allowed is where their original and primary habitat existed, Mexico. Of course there is always Tucson and Phoenix for educational purposes! By the time our side figures out that only a highly justified class action lawsuit can possibly save our elk herds and hunting priviledges, it will be too late for our generation .......and possibly our grandkids generation!

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Allen I hate to admit this, but I seriously think the response you stated that is currently under consideration will not provide much help. The plan relies on too much common sense that we all know is not part of the equation by the wolf advocates. The only possibility I see of anything positive happening to counteract all this nonsense by the 10% radicals is with a class action suit by outdoor clubs, accompanied by the support of AGFD. Perhaps other states could be pursuaded to participate in our interest as well. Class action suits are the only things that the radicals seem to understand. Rational converstations using common sense have never been part of the equation with wolf advocates or any of the so called environmental organizations for that matter. Us conservationists only stand a chance if we talk the same language, and use the same tactics as the so called "environmentalists".