TATAat27 Report post Posted December 13, 2006 Anyone read this, it came straight from the Game and fish website. Elk-antelope regulations adopted News Media Dec 12, 2006 During the adoption process, the commission tweaked the elk permit allocation process to make it more equitable . In the past, the allocation pie – the formula for determining the distribution of permits among general firearms, muzzleloader, and archery hunters – has focused on application pressure and hunt success primarily for bulls to allocate the available harvest. Arizona Game and Fish Department Game Branch Chief Leonard Ordway told the commission that over the years, this permit-allocation process has resulted in an inequity, where those applying for archery permits for antlerless elk have been able to obtain a disproportionately high percentage of the available permits compared to general antlerless season applicants. Ordway explained the original formula for distributing the permits developed in 1986 was based on the assumption that hunters desired bull elk tags, so the formula grouped bull and antlerless elk hunters together. “Over the ensuing years, we have seen a demand develop where hunters are consistently putting in for cow elk as their first and second choices. When you compare the draw harvest allocation, preference for permits and success rates of archery versus rifle for those tags, an archery hunter had a disproportionate chance of being drawn as compared to a general season applicant,” Ordway told the commission. The commission agreed the inequity that has existed should be eliminated and adopted the department’s recommended allocation of elk permits separating and managing the bull elk allocation away from the antlerless allocation. General season permits are 15,310, an increase of 615 permits from last year. Junior antlerless elk hunts are increased by 40 to 1,185 permits. Archery elk permits were decreased by 1,375 (primarily due to an adjustment in antlerless permit allocation and an overall decrease in antlerless harvest across the state) to 4,864. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilentButDeadly Report post Posted December 13, 2006 WTF!!!! Its going to take me a while to figure out the logic behind this one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted December 13, 2006 As noted, the allocation % has now separated the bull from the cow tags. G&F looked at the demand for cow elk tags based on first choice applicant numbers. Significantly more hunters, 5 wise, apply for rifle cow than achery cow vs bull, hence the shift. The department used first choice to judge what and how hunters want to hunt. The department was also directed by the commission to increase the elk herds from 17,000 estimated to 25,000 objective, which would result in less cow permits total being issued. With fewer cow permits, coupled with the shift to rifle cow, it seems that archers took it in the shorts. Rifle cow hunters lost permits in order to increase herds, but gained them back due to the shift from archery. G&F had a series of open houses at the regional offices before Saturday's Commissioner meeting to ask questions. This was also discussed on Bowsite before and after the meeting.. http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thre...71&state=AZ http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/regional/thre...22&state=AZ RR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justanotherpunk Report post Posted December 13, 2006 What I understand from this is that they are balancing the availability of tags. It won't pay to be an archery hunter any more than it will pay to be a rifle or muzzleloader hunter. Classically it has been much easier to get tags as an archer. They just adjusting for this imbalance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoGuns Report post Posted December 13, 2006 If they want to increase the elk herd, it seems strange that they would increase the rifle cow tags, as i would imagine the success rates of rifle hunts are much higher than archery hunts. That is the only conclusion i can reach. I will say however, that it may not really be a bad idea in some ways....I know my wife's grandparents and older aunts and uncles really want to go hunt for cow elk, and that is it, not bull elk. they dont spend a lot of time hunting, but would like to go out and get a cow to put in the freezer, but their draw odds are not real good. Maybe this will change that, but i dont think they need to lower the # of archery tags. twoguns Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim Report post Posted December 13, 2006 I figure this is punishment for last year when the archers didn't like there november hunt idea. Last year they were after more oppurtunity for archers and since we didn't like their ideas we will now pay for it by less archery oppurtunity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azyoung Report post Posted December 13, 2006 Dang with the demand for more cow elk tags and increasing the elk herd is not going to help the dwindling mule deer herd. It would make sense to me and as TwoGuns mentioned increase the Archery tags. azyoung Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted December 13, 2006 I think the demand for cow tags will go down somewhat once the new prices take effect. $100+ for a cow tag is a little hard for some folks to swallow. I think some hunters will drop out altogether and others will switch to rifle/ML'er hunts where success is higher and you have a better chance of filling the freezer. Also, I think if you only apply for archery bull tags, you will be rewarded with less hunters in the field if you draw since the cow and bull archery hunts are concurrent. IMO, there are more than 17,000 elk in the state. You can drive down just about any road in unit 6A in the evening and see several hundred there alone. The G&F is probably correct with number, but it just seems low. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phx hunter Report post Posted December 13, 2006 They know that the archery hunters are the more dedicated hunters. We will put in year after year no matter what they do. It is the occasional hunters they need to target. By increasing the percentage of general tags they will keep the others coming back and increase their revenue through the application fees. Follow the money and everything they do makes perfect sense. Don't get caught up in thinking the G&F cares about the wildlife or the sportsmen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilentButDeadly Report post Posted December 13, 2006 Why take away a greater % archery tags than general? Why pity the gun hunters for their lower draw probability? Everyone who enters into the lottery chooses what weapon they want to hunt with, there isn't any stipulation keeping you from becoming an archer. Unless they have shown that archery (both as a weapon group and as its season occurs during the rut) is more effective at reducing the number of cows and they want to increase that number I can't understand why there was such a dramatic cut. My fear is that this is supply-side economics: G&F want there to be more general cow tags so as to increase the number of general applicants. Since general applicants far out number archers, it is a quick way to make some more dough. I am all about G&F making money, charge double for everything - but make sure that the game is being managed correctly. It should be about successful harvest #'s not applicant #'s. That being said, I'm going to accept the change - since it is too late for me to do anything about it - maybe next time I will go to the meetings and make my voice heard. Long live the herd! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted December 13, 2006 Increasing the herd size by decreasing the tags alotted to the group with the lowest success rate and increasing the number of tags to the group with the highest success rate seems kinda counter-intuitive to me. Of course, I only had 5 or 6 semesters of math in college, so maybe I'm looking at the numbers wrong. I did read recently though that hunting was over a $100 million a year industry for our state. Maybe that's the herd they really want to increase. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
galiuro mountain man Report post Posted December 13, 2006 Its all about the money. If they know they will get more people to enter the draw they will change it. It will get more people to put in, and have to buy a non refundable license, even if they arent drawn they have to pay for a license. Some of them wont even use the license. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coues7 Report post Posted December 13, 2006 I SUGGEST THAT ALL OF US GET OFF OUR A$$' AND GET TO THE MEETINGS. THIS WAY WE CAN ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS WE WANT IN AN EFFORT BROADEN OUR UNDERSTANDING AND GIVE INPUT!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted December 13, 2006 I SUGGEST THAT ALL OF US GET OFF OUR A$$' AND GET TO THE MEETINGS. THIS WAY WE CAN ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS WE WANT IN AN EFFORT BROADEN OUR UNDERSTANDING AND GIVE INPUT!! You're right on there. Can you imagine if 1700 some odd CW.com fans showed up to their meeting to boo them for their price gouging! I think they had one in Phoenix this last weekend. I'd wanted to go, but was out of town. I'll be at the next one though. See you there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted December 14, 2006 NeoLaquachi, et al The number of 615 permits increased for the general season is due to and increase of 620 general bull tags and a DECREASE of 5 general cow tags. Archers are to get 110 more bull tags. RR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
