Arizona looses court case!

[JSR]

I am 100% AGAINST setting aside tags for outfitters and guides. If it comes down to it, I would much rather set aside the 10% to everyday hunters.

 

BTW, the G&F asked the courts to give them permission to go ahead with this years draw. They will have a hearing on Monday.

[azpackhorse]

No resolution yet, another meeting 7/19 12:00 noon. I will try my best to attend, I hope that those who can will also be there.

[sum2004]

They need to just tell us if we got drawn or not. Hopefully this does not mean they can cancel the draw all together this year. They need to hurry up and decide.

[sum2004]

Important message from Game and Fish website:

 

 

Montoya hoax: important info for hunters

 

Wildlife News

July 16, 2004

 

 

Be advised that some Arizona hunters are receiving a hoax e-mail advising them that their hunt application has been removed from the department database and that they need to reapply. THIS IS NOT TRUE.

 

Please check the Arizona Game and Fish Department Web site for news about the fall hunt permit drawing. The department will always have the latest, most accurate information about the situation.

[GreyGhost85]

don't know how this will work. using the kid's computer at home. anyway, just what we need, a hoax. whatta ya wanna bet it's some nerd hugger hacker? i still think they should have told the judge, not asked him. force the issue. force uso to negotiate. force everything. this is a whole dang state we're talking about, who's leaders are buttkissin' a couple low lifes from another state. it's time to grow a pair shrouf. fight or get out. what are they gonna do, send in the national guard? this is a state. we are a stand alone government. we don't have to ask the feds what to do. folks fight em all the time. i'm so dissapointed in the g&f right now that there ain't words for it. i've tried to be their friend, but no more. i really hope there are some wardens that cruise this site and i hope they read every word i write, because i'm serious. this shouldn't have ever gotten to this point. we're being represented by the weakest bunch of burro-crats i've ever seen. everyone whips em. they never fight. roll over and play dead. buncha stinkin' possums. if we lose one tag, it's too many. myself, i wish they'd have told the judge to go to heck and if he didn't like it, then cancel all draw hunts for the rest of the year. give the wildlife and the habitat a break. hunt the heck out of new mex and colorado where you can buy tags over the counter and let Arizona heal up. if you know you're gonna lose something, then fight like heck to save what you can. don't start beggin' now you buncha pansies. one other thing, thanks a lot to Amanda for letting us blow off a little steam and not nuking the thread. later, Lark Hubbard.

[Guest Guest]

Remember not to VOTE this judge in again.As far as I'm concerned he's out of office.

[JSR]

I am pretty sure federal judges are appointed, not voted on.

[Guest murph]

it is certainly hard to swallow this most unfortunate news, especially knowing the source of it's conception. Tallman is indeed an unethical unpleasant self important jerk!

I cant help but appeal to all Arizona hunters to use there better sense and take the high ground. We serve ourselves best by acting ethically. As members of the hunting fraternity we can not affrord to "GO OFF" hot headed and do damage to our priveldge by misrepresenting our selves in anger.

The best defense we have against this latest order is to be united, keep our cool heads and persist. Organization is the key!

This is just the beginning gentlemen and certainly not the end! Believe me, enough of us care and the money is there. WE will fight, if need be, TOGETHER!

 

 

PROTECT OUR PRIVELEDGE FIRST........ETHICS!!!!

MURPH

[trufletch]

Murphs right-calm, cool, logical thought processes are needed. I realize the need to blow off some steam but lets make sure its not taken out on the wrong people. I have been fortunate to hunt elk in New Mexico, one of the cheaper tags, but an out-of state nonetheless. I want to continue to do that without thoughts of getting my butt stomped or camp trashed by that states resident population. Don't bash the blue-collar hunter, like we all are. Lets focus our collective resources to the real satan- USO, speak out to our elected officials, boycott USO sponsors, write the newspapers and magazines but above all, don't act like a bunch of drunk duck hunters. Combine our efforts in an educated, well presented format and we will be better off. Take the high road. P.S. I am a native Tucsonan and have hunted this utopia forever- lets save it for our children- maybe this could be our legacy.

 

trufletch

[bullwidgeon]

I am far from a lawyer but a few important questions come to mind. First is the wildlife in our state the responsibility of the Federal Government or the State? Seems like everytime a coyote drags off a house cat in Marana the AZGFD gets sued and not the USFWS. Look at the recent Sabino Canyon lion debocle, I saw no mention of the USFWS at all!!! Using this logic I would say the wildlife and it's management fall upon the state. Second is there any federal right to hunt? Last I checked no, no constitutional amendment or anything of that sort, if there was we could all tell the Anti's to go piss up a rope and would have nothing to worry about ever. So if the State is charged with responsibility to manage wildlife in the state they should be able to do as they see fit. Discrimination should have nothing to do with it. Seems to me like Game and Fish, as the agency in charge of managing the state wildlife could tell the Feds to piss up a rope beacause it is not a right for anyone to come and hunt here, much less out of state outfitters. This interstate commerce crap in the lawsuit doesn't have a leg to stand on in most sane peoples minds, they are arguing that the hides and antlers of these elk and carp being sold after the kill is what makes them money. The d@mned outfitters never even own the cape or horns, the clients do, and I would like to see how many USO clients have sold horns or hide in the past for profit. I am sure 99% of their trophies are gathering dust in their offices, homes or garages. Anyways, there is no federal right to hunt here or anywhere else, there is no Federal agency in charge of OUR wildlife and I bet the Game and Fish by telling this 9th circus judge to basically piss up a rope would get a hearing in front of a very conservative supreme court who for the most part support States rights to govern. It would be nice to see this happen, but I doubt it ever will, as like Lark I am not sure the Commision would ever stand up to the Feds even though they have a legal right to and the past indicates the Feds have had absolutley nothing to do with Wildlife Management around here. heck, who knows, in all reality G&F might not give a damned who the tags go to so long as they get their paychecks every Friday. I know alot of State workers who fall into that category, I just always assumed the G&F was better than that. I do wish I had payed more attention to those Criminal Justice and Civil Studies classes I took back in college now, but it seems like their was alot of good looking gals who were Ali McBeal wannabes at the time in those classes, generally that will ruin my attention span. . I am done filibustering now, I am off to seek answers to my initial questions. It has be on the internet somewhere and I got a very boring 12 hour night shift with me shackled to a computer all night to get through.

 

Bret M.

Edited January 1, 1970 by bullwidgeon

[Guest dennis.j]

if this thing does go down as it appears to allready be set up to go. Maybe we can do something that will not make us look like a bunch of bubbas. Like every year uso sends letters to licensed guides in the state to coduct hunts. if any one knows any person with a guide license and ask them to not support USO I know that some people rely on this money for there families but several just guide to be out in the field I wonder how griz and tollman would conduct 1x100 hunts and what kinda mess it would create for there business. I think there success rate and reputaion would go to heck even farther.

[az4life]

Intersate commerce seems to be the driver here.

 

Another case of the Feds meddling in the purported "good of the states". They shove these mandates down our throats and then step back and give us no support or authority to enforce the federal laws.

 

Think back to the mandatory background checks for gun purchases mandated by feds a few years ago. they give the order but give no resources to get it done. Yet they Threaten states with fines and penalties if they do not enforce the federal mandates.

 

Another one near to AZ is the continual absence of Border Protection. This is the national border, and they do not have adequate protection for the country to prevent illegal aliens and even potential terrorists from crossing the border.

Once here, these illegals get into trouble and the state, city and county officials won't nab them unless there is a capitol crime committed. Small infractions and they go free to do it again. The reason is the federal authority, INS Border patrol do not have enough staff to pick them all up. Millions of examples of the federal fiasco failures at enforcing their own laws.

 

Many more examples of similar problems with fed mandates, and thye want to shove this one on us too! I am thinking we should say not this time, but we better be ready to back it up! AZ may have to secede from the USA to make the point. Gov Napaloreno is bad enough but President Napoloreno is too much to bear.

 

Taulman's & Montoya's USO crew has tossed a good system in the toilet and I hope they never get alzheiners so they can choke on their own puke when they grow old and look back on how they ruined a good system for all hunters, due to their own greed.

 

Anyone got USO Targets for sale yet?

[Guest Buster]

Why in the world is everbody here so upset over this issue that relates to muley tags on the Kaibab/Strip and elk??? Isn't this a coues deer forum??? Aren't you all dedicated, hard-core, true-blue Coues deer hunters??? Why in the heck would get your panties in a ruffle over CARP tags???

 

Give me a break, would you? The Coues deer license draw has been "everybody's name in the same hat" forever, AND I NEVER READ COMPLAINT ONE FROM YOU GUYS!!! All of a sudden "everybody's name in the same hat" for lousy, stinkin', bottom-feeding, unchallenging CARP and elk is a big problem. Would someone please explain this one to me???

 

Mr. Taulman (who is my HERO for doing this) asked for donations for this cause several years ago. I donated $2,500 to help him staighten out this incredible injustice. There are many hunters that are tired of unfair tag allotments for nonresidents in ALL STATES I am one of them. The Arizona lawsuit is only the first. Our fondest hope is that, one bright sunny day, all AMERICANS are considered equal within each state's boundaries.

 

I believe that there should be no 'split' between res and non-res in all states. Every application should be have an equal chance at drawing, since we are all AMERICANS.

 

The game in America belongs to all AMERICANS. For those of you who think that state G & F Departments are subsidized by the state tax general fund, GET A CLUE!!! They are usually funded SOLELY by license fees and federal grant $$$ generated by taxes on hunting and fishing gear. Teddy Roosevelt set this thing up a century ago so that HUNTERS funded wildlife conservation, not TAXPAYERS. He did this so that hunting and wildlife will survive.

 

I am sooooooooo glad to see this injustice to nonresidents being MADE RIGHT in Arizona. I look forward to the forthcoming lawsuits in the other western states as well. Just think, you Arizona residents will have the same chance at a Utah premium-limited-entry elk tag (and a super 400" bull) as a lifelong Utah resident.

 

Buster

[huntergal]

Just curious... was this company that sued AZ Fish & Game the same United States Outfitter that was busted a few years ago for violation of the Lacey Act and using aircraft during hunts?

[JSR]

Buster = socialist.

 

Wants the Goverment to hold his hand and solve all his problems.