Arizona looses court case!

[m1280]

hey 300wsm, i agree but to be honest its plain to see that we are dealing w/ a child whos gettin all off on gettin us spooled up and now he has to go with an athiest theme and try to pull more people into his little circle!! it sickens me that BUSTER now chooses this time to enlighten us with his wisdom! this web site has done so much for my knowledge, as well as my sons, of coues with a few stories here and there about the other wildlife species that i cant say thank you enough to ALL those who contributed positively for their time. until this came along even my son whos 9 could safley surf this site. do us a favor BUSTER and go to monster mulies.com and call every one out. maybe i am wrong for printin this, as i am sure to recieve a response from BUSTER as soon as it posts but lets try to clean it up a bit -mike in tucson-

[Redman]

Obviously, Buster has clearly shown he is a liberal, atheist, and he is baiting us into arguments while suggesting those on this board are an enemy like the enemy our men and women are facing it Iraq ( I sure Buster prefers the word "insurgents" to describe the throat cutting enemy)

 

There are many people like Buster. They want the Federal court to decide some cases like this while disregarding each State?s rights to govern itself and serve it residents.

 

This is almost ALWAYS the truth, until a subject like gay marriage comes up. Then it?s the State?s right to decide how and who gets married, better yet they prefer city governments make these decisions because they know it easier to serve their own interests.

 

They are also very good at confusing the facts and bating arguments like:

 

?Coues deer=superior deer, mule deer=CARP before last Tuesday" to "mule deer=first rate deer today" issue. Can you CW guys say "double standard"

 

I?m sure 98% of us on this board don?t care about the mule deer cap, but will fight to the end to keep the BULL ELK CAP.

 

You know what?s funny, the $2500 he and others donated hasn?t done anything yet other than make one liberal judge change his mind. This issue is far from over and while I believe our G&F commissioner is a incompetent, maybe he will lead a solution that protects the rights of Arizona residents more than the current system.

 

 

Buster, being wealthy is great everybody would love to have money instead of being without. It doesn?t mean you?re a bad person. What makes you a bad person is when you make comments like (and I?m paraphrasing) ?wouldn?t you like to draw a mouse or elk tag in other states?, this is a slap in the face to those who can?t afford to travel to these other states. You assume because you can, everybody can. Right now, Arizona residents have the opportunity to hunt trophy elk for less than $100.00.

 

Good luck Buster, and everybody remember he and others like him serve their own interests.

[az4life]

Mike

I somethimes forget this is a "family" forum. We all know this is a highly charged topic, but After re-reading the last day of posts it is apparent this thread is getting a bit out of hand. I for 1 will try to tone it down.

 

Baiting may be legal, however it is not ethical on this fine board. I wish I had an "IGNORE" button as an option for those who post in a style not appropriate.

 

Time for a cooling off break.

 

A wise fellow once said to leave it in the hands of the Almighty. (I am with him on this one.)

[m1280]

right on!!!

[JSR]

Buster,

 

Why Arizona? Why not Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Alaska, California, Etc? Is it because we are doing something they aren't or is it becasue we have the alot of big Elk and Carp? Why not go after NM, who set aside 12% of their tags ONLY for outfitters? That 12% right off the top effects your draw odds more than a 10% cap.

 

Arizona puts all applicants, NR or resident into the same draw pool and picks from that. What is more fair than that? Oh wait, you think that NR should be given THEIR OWN allottment of tags? Why?

[coueselk]

Buster, I have a question for you. Did any of you out-of-staters consider the kids of people that don't have a lot of money? What I mean is, I personally can't afford to put my kids in for hunts in other states. Thats what residency gives me. A cheap permit. You guys aren't only taking the tags away from us adults. But your taking away the permits to our youth. The youth that loves the outdoors. The youth that all of us love to spend time with. My daughter really wants an elk tag. Now she may have to wait for years, because some wealthy non-resident is getting the tags.

[CB1]

Buster, unfortunately for you this site and forum members adher to a higher standard than you're used to, don't waste any more time here.

My concern is the quality of legal counsel the state has available to it, i'm afraid in such a short amount of time to react the out come will not be as well thought out as it could be with more time. Don't know, maybe they've been prepared for this day for awhile and have a plan.

Hunting is becoming a rich man's sport, these decisions are far reaching,....i don't know...i'm just frustrated...CB1

[Guest Ernesto C]

Buster I forgive you because your ingnorance does not let you think/see. Lord I thank you becuase not all AMERICANS are like him (he's thinking he choose where to be born).

 

I was going to answer your questions but you do not deserve my attention, also, I gave you my name before and I'll give it to you again Ernesto Cibrian,how come yuo did not give me your name? Wiil you be man enough to tell me where and when will you come Az. so I can serve you and treat you better than what you deserve?

 

I'm sure I am more AMERICAN than you. Hasta la vista baby.

 

I forgive you because I'm afraid of the Lord,I'll like to have him as a father and not as a Judge.

 

Ernesto C.

 

P.S. My fellow members there is always light at the end of the tunel....things will be better.

[coues addict]

Hey everybody

Wow , I have been working a lot of hours the last few days and I just read most all of the posts on this subject. I told you guys I was a California resident and I haven`t moved in the last few days either. I have always obided by the rules and regulations of any state that I have been fortunate enough to hunt in. I feel hunting is a priveledge. I married a native Arizona girl and all my inlaws live in Az. I would love to move to Arizona some day, but for now its just not in the cards. I do not have a lot of money, but I get by. I think whenever you guys or the state of Arizona gets this worked out if you feel that you will allow nonresidents to hunt in your state than I will come. I have only been drawn for elk 1 time and I missed a bull. I have never applied north of the Colorado River for deer because I never figured I could get a tag. I love hunting Coues deer and that is the main thing I put in for every year. I do think they should make everyone send the money in with their application like they used to. I really think that has hurt you guys. I feel for you guys because if I did live in Az. I would feel that non residents should not have an equal chance at any tag. Thats just the way I feel. I would feel the same way if I lived in Montana or Utah Or Neveda. I have paid nonresident liscence and tag fee`s for some 23 years now so I have donated to some extent. You guys don`t know me but I hope you don`t loose all of your states rights. We lost lion hunting and I am still mad about that too. I think you guys need to organize your thoughts and keep fighting ! Good Luck Coues Addict P.S. I was hopeing someone could find me some good used Az. plates

Edited January 1, 1970 by coues addict

[crotalus]

After reading all the postings, I'm stuck by several points:

1) why was this allowed to get to this point. To have a decision like this so close to the actual tag notification date is, well...it just begs for an explaination from the G&F

2) why are there no postings from the "big name" outfitters/guides? Try looking at their websites, not one mention as of 900 pm 07/16/04. There are alot of $$$$$'s at stake I'm sure. Respecting the current postings of other guides of course, I'm still waiting to hear from the "big names".

3) one posting also mentioned how this is working in the hands of PETA and other eco-activists. This is an understatement for sure. They are quitely rejoicing as we devour ourselves. The enemy is not out of state hunters or even outfitters who are trying to make an "honest" living(keyword: honest). It is the anti-hunter who will rejoice at the thought of keeping us from hunting, even if it means making a deal with the devil. I enjoy hunting elk and deer perhaps that is why it effects us all, not just those to hunt CWD "only". If you can start on one species what will fall next?

4) Increased fees will mean only the "aristocrates" will get to hunt. I for one will not be able to afford the increased fees, even for my resident tags. I have a three year old son who loves the "Outdoor Channel" and watching the hunts. What a heart break it will be when he learns that hunting will belong to the 'kings and noble-men" of our age.

5) we have fallen asleep and despirately needed this wake-up call. The foundations of our great hunting privileges are eroding before our eyes and not one dang thing is being said about how we can really unite to defeat this enemy. Sure token responses are posted but lets "walk the walk if we are going to talk the talk". That includes we residents of this great state and out of state visitors.

6) Where are the voices of our advocacy groups? What is being said by such groups as RMEF, ADA, NAH, SCI etc........If you are a member of any of these groups you need to demand they take a stance one way other the other. Arizona is just the start, next stop Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, Wy..........

"History repeats itself" many say. Once hundreds of years ago only kings and noblemen hunted. The game "belonged" to them, the commoner dare not steal their quarry. It was the "sport of kings" because the commoner do not have the money to pay for such privilege. I for one refuse to let my son enjoy hunting on television only. History cannot be allowed to repeat itself here, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know exactly how we can do this yet, but start with your advocacy groups and legislature.

Respecfully submitted,

Ernest

 

P.S. Ernesto thanx for the prayer, at this point we are going to need it.

[Guest Ernesto C]

Hey Coues Addict don't worry my friend we will go hunting and I'll have the frijoles and salsa ready,you bet.

 

Take care and blessings.

 

Ernesto C.

[Diamondbackaz]

I think some of you are over reacting and the use of physical threats, name calling, and the use of foul languge on this forum is unbecoming of a gentlemen. I believe that this is a set back, but there is other avenues that the commission can fight back with. I predict that this issue will be resolved for the benefit of Arizona hunters and USO will ultimately lose. Yes I am tweaked that it has held up the drawing process but I feel that I will get my tag.

[trufletch]

Ernesto and Diamondbackaz are right on the money. We are all better than this- Don't let guys like Buster spool us. I did, and I am done with his kind- Just ignore any of his and people like his postings This isn't his fight. We will take the high road and stand up for the states rights to govern itself. After all this country was fopunded on the premise that the Fed gets its rights from the states. Unfortunately this has eroded over the years and now we have the tail wagging the dog. As i said in an earlier poist- I am a firm believer in karma This will all work out for the better if we do our jobs , be ladies and gentlemen, be educated, vocal, boycott sponsors if needed, talk to our elected officials, and the G7F Commission- An organized, concerted effort will go a long way to ending this mess.

 

Thanks to those who are bringing reason and sanity to the forum Sage advise ERbesto amd Diamondbackaz.

 

Trufletch

[Guest Buster]

Confucius Say, He who angers you................controls you, LOL.

 

This is a good thread and a good website. This is a SUPER country where we are all free and are allowed to have our individual beliefs and the constitution gives us the right to express them. Some of you realize this, while some want to sensor, slander, banish and discredit me for not sharing your opinions and beliefs and for not 'following the herd' on this issue.

 

I am simply standing tall and firm for what I believe in. And trying to understand where Arizona hunters are coming from in their intense statements on this issue. I'm also trying to make you realize that our great country extends faaaaar beyond the Arizona border.

 

The thing that I believe.............and the reason I am happy about the judges decision..........is that the wildlife is indeed best managed by each state..........but belongs to everyone. All states, not just Arizona, should not be allowed differentiate between residents and non-residents, period. And this includes license fees.

 

Colorado has a 64/40 res-nonres split. Colorado wildlife is managed by politics (translated, that means $$$), with the policies usually directed toward maximizing income for the businesses that depend on the huge influx of non-residents and the CDOW budget that does the same. There is a group in Colorado actively trying to get the split changed to 80/20, and they asked for my support. Know what? I won't support them, since the only FAIR solution IMO is to not have a split at all!

 

I am pretty happy about Arizona's Coues deer license draw program where all have an equal chance. I have to pay more than a res does, which is okay if his Arizona tax money helps fund the AZGFD budget. If AZGFD is funded solely by license fees and federal grants.............then everybody's license fees should be equal.

 

My fondest hope is that a young Iowa boy who dreams about taking a magnificent bull elk in the Rockies has the same chance and the same costs as a resident of a western state. As some of you have mentioned, hunting should not be a rich man's sport. Unfortunately, in order to get to this point, it had to start somewhere. And that somewhere is Arizona. Kansas is on the agenda as well. It's too bad that an outfitter had to get this thing started. It should be a coalition of sportsmans groups such as SCI, B & C, FNAWS, NRA, RMEF, etc... But those groups are fairly useless on this issue.

 

Buster

[300 wsm]

To all MEMBERS that I may have offended I apologize for the bad words that I used. Im sure you did not appreciate your children reading that if they did. I just have a hot temper, and dont like remarks like that.