#14 and 15

[jim]

My comment was leaning more towards someone used facts instead of I think, I heard or the many other rumor starting thought process's that are out there. I have had the same conversation bc777 with numerous friends, if lions killed that many deer I would tend to think I would come across alot more dead deer in the woods. I would like to see the sheep make it because the more places we have sheep the more hunter opportunity there is. However I have to agree this one was not thought out to well.

[bonecollector777]

Now I agree with that fork horn. They have to eat and will kill stuff often. Including elk, turkey, javelina, rabbits, and I have seen them eat skunks, fox, and even bobcats from traps. They are opportunistic feeders and usually whatever they wander up on while hungry is gonna die.

[gotcoues]

I know we all have "our issues" with game and fish but I'm pretty surprised we as hunters have played right into the anti's arms on this sheep deal.

 

Did the sheep society and G & F know the lions were dense in the Catalina's, yes they did. Unfortunately, apparently they have less control over this operation than the other major players in this "unholy alliance" to get the sheep reintroduced into the Catalina's.

 

The original proposal was to go in and remove lions before hand which was strongly opposed and the absolute best deal they could strike was attempt to remove "offending lions" only to appease people who have no clue how to manage wildlife. The very same pro wolf crowd already hurting our wildlife with their massive wolf push! Only two lions were tracked and killed by houndsman and one by G & F. Others were tracked unsuccessfully or the houndsman had to pull of due to "rules of engagement".

 

I believe the real question we as the hunting community should be asking is why the heck is this reintroduction is being run by ANYONE else other than the sheep society and G & F!

 

This project is "failing" because of the ridiculous rules put in by be the other groups who shouldn't have been at the table in the first place!!!

 

There is a commission meeting tonight in Oro Valley and the anti's will be in full force no doubt! I'm finding a hard time believing we as hunters and so called conservationists have a problem with decreasing the lion population in a given area to relieve predation on sheep and/or other wildlife. Isn't that a part of wildlife management?

 

I believe we have played the part of the fool on this one and we have given huge points to the other side. Imagine if failure was part of their plan to begin with. Do you really think the anti's care about sheep or wildlife in general the way you and I do. I would compare that notion to PETA and the % of killing vs. adopting they do in their very only shelters. They are seated at the discussion/slash rule making for agenda reasons IMO. Failure and bad publicity helps feed their narrative for more California like legislation to be sent down the pipe which could be why they want EVERY lion to be head line news and wanted it from the get go.

 

I really think we as a community should be sticking together on this issue no different than baiting, running hounds, trapping or any other hunting related issue. These idiots are pushing false narratives and skewing facts like nobody's business.

 

I personally would rather buy into the narrative that culling lions in areas densely populated with lions can be a benefit for all wildlife including the lions themselves. I'm all for sheep living and doing well in the great state of AZ and I know the chances to ever get to hunt one are slim to none. Although the anti's love to make people believe they only reason we hunters would like to see them in the Catalina's is so we can kill them which is absurd and unfortunately here we sit fighting amongst ourselves rather than preaching the gospel of wildlife conservation to the same crowds the antis preach loud and clear there deranged way of thinking and skewed facts.

[johnnie blaze]

I agree, but the powers to be should have figured that the anti's were gonna be one, if not the most important, factor in the reintroduction. It's almost like they set us up.

I know we all have "our issues" with game and fish but I'm pretty surprised we as hunters have played right into the anti's arms on this sheep deal.

Did the sheep society and G & F know the lions were dense in the Catalina's, yes they did. Unfortunately, apparently they have less control over this operation than the other major players in this "unholy alliance" to get the sheep reintroduced into the Catalina's.

The original proposal was to go in and remove lions before hand which was strongly opposed and the absolute best deal they could strike was attempt to remove "offending lions" only to appease people who have no clue how to manage wildlife. The very same pro wolf crowd already hurting our wildlife with their massive wolf push! Only two lions were tracked and killed by houndsman and one by G & F. Others were tracked unsuccessfully or the houndsman had to pull of due to "rules of engagement".

I believe the real question we as the hunting community should be asking is why the heck is this reintroduction is being run by ANYONE else other than the sheep society and G & F!

This project is "failing" because of the ridiculous rules put in by be the other groups who shouldn't have been at the table in the first place!!!

There is a commission meeting tonight in Oro Valley and the anti's will be in full force no doubt! I'm finding a hard time believing we as hunters and so called conservationists have a problem with decreasing the lion population in a given area to relieve predation on sheep and/or other wildlife. Isn't that a part of wildlife management?

I believe we have played the part of the fool on this one and we have given huge points to the other side. Imagine if failure was part of their plan to begin with. Do you really think the anti's care about sheep or wildlife in general the way you and I do. I would compare that notion to PETA and the % of killing vs. adopting they do in their very only shelters. They are seated at the discussion/slash rule making for agenda reasons IMO. Failure and bad publicity helps feed their narrative for more California like legislation to be sent down the pipe which could be why they want EVERY lion to be head line news and wanted it from the get go.

I really think we as a community should be sticking together on this issue no different than baiting, running hounds, trapping or any other hunting related issue. These idiots are pushing false narratives and skewing facts like nobody's business.

I personally would rather buy into the narrative that culling lions in areas densely populated with lions can be a benefit for all wildlife including the lions themselves. I'm all for sheep living and doing well in the great state of AZ and I know the chances to ever get to hunt one are slim to none. Although the anti's love to make people believe they only reason we hunters would like to see them in the Catalina's is so we can kill them which is absurd and unfortunately here we sit fighting amongst ourselves rather than preaching the gospel of wildlife conservation to the same crowds the antis preach loud and clear there deranged way of thinking and skewed facts.