TREESTANDMAN Report post Posted July 8, 2004 Well I just found out that 2 of my favorite hunting spots in unit 22 are now in ashes. One of my friend's trail camera's is now toast. I guess I can say goodbye now to the 2 nice cinnomon bears, huge tom lion and nice coues buck that was hitting a water hole there. I bet I could make this into a country song. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rembrant Report post Posted July 8, 2004 I'd feel very sorry for you if I didn't know what wonderful things happen to the habitat - even in as early as one year. I am sorry to hear about your camera. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAM Report post Posted July 8, 2004 Maybe Amanda could give us an idea as to what generally happens to the wild life as a result of a fire like the Willow. From the Maps showing the burn areas it appears that almost the entire Matazell Wilderness Area has now burned. I know that with fires like this one that some areas burn worse than others and that often times animals will move right back into burned areas within days. Amanda, what is your opinion on this??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ernesto C Report post Posted July 8, 2004 TAM I think you are right depending in how bad the burn area is. TREESTANDMAN remember that really soon there will be rain so that will help a lot if the area is not too bad,not only you will have your favorite hunting spot back but the bears,lion and the big coues too. You never know but you may check for that camera and at the same time find out haw bad it is. Jus my two pesos . God bless you all. Ernesto C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diamondbackaz Report post Posted July 8, 2004 A lot is going to depend on how hot the fire was in your area. I have seen fire go through one area and just burn the pine needles and dead sticks on the ground, and then go into another area and toast everything. It usually depends on how bad the wind was at the time the fire went through. Think positive until you see it for yourself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COUESAZ Report post Posted July 8, 2004 The only problem with this fire is it is burning every thing . Lots of fires will burn in a mosaic pattern and leave lots of green but this one is burning to a moon scape in most places. It will grow back. and the deer and and bear will move right back in and eat the good fresh new growth. They are atracted to the new growth in areas because they have the best nutrition for them. The bad part is all the water holes get thick with black water and ash. and then it ruins alot of water. I was in after the huge fire last year and saw tons of elk already back in there just a week after the fire. The worst part I see with it is all the roads that were overgrown will now be easy to go on. Lets just hope that the trashy 4X4 people from here in the valley dont go up there and turn it into another sicamore creek. It will open alot of ground to be prospected too. So along with scouting this season I will be up there with the old gold detector trying to find some more of that good arizona gold. (I know I could use another outdoor hobby.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Report post Posted July 9, 2004 An ecologist friend of mine once told me that after a good burn the bio-mass will be replaced in three years. I find this hard to believe that the new grasses and shrubs could weigh as much as the now absent trees. But the point is that the mature canopy of end stage old-growth forest (mostly trees) will be replaced with forbs, brush, and sapling trees - DEER FOOD! Seen the Rodeo-Chediski burn lately? The parts of it that I have seen are absolutely gorgeous. Teaming with elk, deer and turkey. The only bad thing about a burn (besides damaging private property) is when it becomes 30-40 years old and full of mature trees again. Rattlesnake Burn in 6B was one of the funnest places in the whole world. Now the burn is hardly recognizable. This change took place in my lifetime. Burns are not permanent. Did the Dude Fire do anything to change the deer and elk hunting? Oh yeah Baby! Some of the best whitetail country in the southwest is beginning to get a lot better. I've been driving past unit 22 for a long time to go to other favorite spots. Move over Treestandman, I'm gonna crowd ya. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
az4life Report post Posted July 9, 2004 A couple comments on the willow fire. I have not looked at the maps real close, but it seems to me that the realtively slow rate of spread on this Willow fire supports my memory of the burn area as not having a lot of timber. Seems it was a lot of manzanita, juniper and general scrub brush. I can see how it wold turn it to a moonscap and generally wipe out everything if that is the case. Timber and winds promote the tre topping and jumping around skipping over areas. I seem to remember the fire retardant drops are full of grass seeds too. That helps promote the grass growth after a fire which saves the topsoil from runoff and erosion. Vegetarian game can smell the fresh grasses and are drawn to the new growth so they come back fairly quickly. The game return faster thatn the "look " of the way it was. Have not hunted that area for 20 plus years but I have sypathy for those who hunt it regularly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rembrant Report post Posted July 9, 2004 Regardless of what is getting consumed, The fire is taking basic elements that are 'locked' into the form of non edible mature growth and releasing them back into the nutrient system. This is good. The habitat will now 'start over', mostly in the form of smaller plants that deer can eat. A deer can't eat an 8" diameter manzanita trunk, but the basic elements that this trunk was made up of is now released to create more palatable bio-mass. Moon scapes are not bad. They will come back. Though it is better if some pockets of cover are left. Deer need food AND cover. A good friend of mine is a rancher in N. Ariz. He told me recently that government agencies don't want him to burn juniper in the summer because "the fire is too hot and this temp will damage the dirt - preventing regrowth". He says this is hooey. The hot fire completely consumes the trees (releasing the nutrients), and the only thing restricting regrowth is lack of moisture. Know why a rancher would want to burn juniper? More feed for his herd. I'm not sure why humans by and large think that burnt looks ugly. We're just not looking deep enough. Like my mom told me when I would complain about the toast being burnt, "Eat it. Burnt makes you handsome!" Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TREESTANDMAN Report post Posted July 9, 2004 This makes no sense to me. Why would a deer move back into a burned area when there is no vegetation to feed on or cover. I can see them eventually moving back but not within days or weeks like some of you guys are saying. I am also curious to get someones opinions on the mortality rate w/ large fires like this. Are the deer able to outrun a large fire like this or do they get dehydrated and tire out and burn? I know that with some good wind, a fire can move pretty fast and steady. Most deer and elk have very little endurance when it comes to running long distances. I know this because my cousin and I would chase elk up in the white mountains on horses and they would tire out before the horses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rembrant Report post Posted July 9, 2004 There are minerals like potash that are released by the fire that ungulates will go to even while the fire is still smoldering. The real return is after about a year when the habitat is regenerating. And then gets better and better in subsequent years - as the habitat further regenerates. Of course there will be mortality, yet most of the larger animals will escape. Even small mammals like ground squirrels can survive the torrent by being underground. Nature is amazing. To say that wildfire destroys the deer, elk and bears is like saying that hunting destroys the deer, elk and bears. Treestandman, it is definately going to suck for a while in your favorite spots, yet as the years progress you will be astounded, and pleased. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ernesto C Report post Posted July 9, 2004 The fire its beneficial or good for the forrest for all those reasons Mike is saying and I dont think fire will kill deer,bear,elk etc etc. if they have a clear scape route they will scape. They (animals) dont have to touch the fire to feel the a burning sensation TREESTANDMAN several feet away from the fire and they know they must get out of there,that's why you are able to get close to them in horses,becuase deer are not afraid of horses they are thinking that you and the horse are one. But get off the horse and try to chase them? as soon they see you,you never will see them again. Mike good thing I never eat burnt stuff,God did not make rich but He did make handsome hahaha God bless everybody. Ernesto C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TREESTANDMAN Report post Posted July 9, 2004 Thanks for the great posts guys. Ernesto, I wish the deer and elk thought I was part of the horse when riding in the mountains but I think they can tell the difference between a horse with a rider and one w/out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAM Report post Posted July 9, 2004 I have no doubt that in the next several years the bear and whitetail in the area of the willow fire will florush. What I'm a little more curious about is what will things be like for this years hunts starting in August? I can't wait to go check things out as soon as they re-open the roads! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rembrant Report post Posted July 9, 2004 Good question. My guess is that the moon scape won't be holding too many critters, but the fringes could be special. Because of the negative attitudes that even a lot of us hunters have towards fire, I'd be willing to guess that the few unit 22 tag holders that have the gumption to glass the new burn could be pleasantly surprised. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
