Beware of Sonoran Outfitters!

[Drummond Lindsey]

I have been told that Todd has been banned for life by Ovis

[AndrewJ]

How much was the hunt?

 

I'm curious now how things transpired-

 

Uncle flies to Sonora, shoots a Mexican bighorn sheep (on private land I assume), and heads back without the horns. Is that standard practice? How come he couldn't take the horns with him?

 

Then the guide won't give it to your uncle because he doesn't have the proper paperwork/ tags for the animal?

 

It sounds like this guy is running a poaching operation in Mexico.

 

Have you considered doing any legal action in Mexico? If your uncle has the coin to go on the hunt and then mess around with the US legal system surely he can cause some headaches for this guy's company in Mexico. Do you have a copy of the court documents, and do they say the part about him not having a tag for the animal?

[AndrewJ]

If it were me, and I was screwed like this, I would turn the game on him. Mexico just went through a tax revolution, and if I were a betting man, I would say this Todd fellow is NOT in compliance. Mexico is a very complex place to do business, and it wouldn't surprise me if he isn't even registered. Do you recall if he had an office or any legal presence in Mexico?

 

First thing I would do is gather up all of my documentation and correspondence, especially the invoice/ proof of payment and any court documents. Hopefully there is something in the correspondence or the court documents where he admits he doesn't have a tag for the bighorn sheep. Then I would put together a letter laying out what happend, how the animal was taken without a tag, and how this Todd character is running a dubious organization. Then I would contract with a translator in Hermosillo to get it all translated into Spanish, and include an "apostille" stamp which makes the translation valid for government use. Very important to get this stamp. I'll see if I can find the company I've used in Hermosillo, they were very reasonable with their rates.

 

Then I would send a letter off to this guy here-

http://www.semarnat.gob.mx/secretario

 

I would also send a letter off to the local Semarnt office in Hermosillo-

http://www.semarnat.gob.mx/estados/Paginas/sonora

 

Now that you are on a roll, I would really start to have some fun. Do you think this Ross fellow has kept up with his ISPT and IMSS payments? Has he been remitting his IVA Retenciones payments within the required timeframe? What about the Sonora 2.5% wage tax? In Mexico employees are entitled to 10% of a company's profits, and this was made even stronger with the latest tax upheaval (it used to be you had a company with all the revenue and assets, and they would "lease" the employees from a servicios company you also owned to get around paying out 10% of the profits). Has Ross been keeping up with these PTU payments? I bet he is a huge Mexican tax cheat.

 

I am sure the Hacienda (Mexican tax authorities) would love to look into this.Their auditors in Hermosillo are ferocious- they want to collect every penny. If they sense any sort of illiegal activity they will launch a full audit, and then it will be game over. I can't find the local Hermosillo office, but I know it exists, and they are very awful to work with, and suspicious of everything.

http://www.sat.gob.mx/Paginas/Inicio.aspx

[cramerhunts]

Those are some interesting points and another angle that might be worthwhile exploring. At the moment I don't have answers to most of your questions but will get them. The one question I can definitely answer is yes on copies of the court documents. On a recommendation from the attorney they hired a court reporter to make sure all of the proceedings were documented.

 

I'm currently on the road working but will get with my uncle this weekend and show him this thread and see where we can go.

 

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions!

[AndrewJ]

https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints/file-a-complaint/get-started

 

I also wouldn't waste any time lodging a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

[AndrewJ]

Mexico has very strict firearm laws, and if you so much as bring an empty shell casing into the country you will go to jail. I am going to assume that Mexico is like most countries in the world where if you want to temporarily import an implement of war into the country for the purpose of hunting you also have to have the appropriate tags and hunting permits (meaning I just can't import my rifle into Mexico without showing legitimate proof that a legal hunt is going to take place, pay some fees, and get some fancy stamps). I assume the guide does all this paperwork for you, but were you able to get a copy?

 

Maybe someone else has gone through this whole process, is that generally how it works for Mexico? And if so, how was your uncle able to import his firearm into Mexico for the hunt if there was no underlying tag for the ram? Sounds like there is some fraud going on here...would be really curious to see what the import paperwork looks like, and if you do need to show a tag I wonder if the guide got a deer tag for your uncle just to clear the import regulations. Just a hypothesis.

 

In any case, if something would have happened this whole thing sounds like a huge legal liability for the hunter!

[cramerhunts]

I'm well versed in the firearm laws and gun permitting process in MX and this is not the issue. Although, as anyone can see there is most definitely some fraud involved here which is the basis of the entire situation.

[cohntr6]

Thanks for the info.

LOL. I get emails from him on hunts.

Keep us updated.

[AAA]

I have a past client that may have fallen prey to his 'discount emails'. Now we are trying to decide what to do.

[azbow]

Isn't the hunter responsible also to make sure that all of the paperwork is legit and signed properly? I remember several years ago that some hunters were caught at the border because something wasn't signed and they were in serious trouble trying to bring their horns back. Might be tough to get something done if the hunter is in the wrong technically by shooting an animal without a permit. Just kind of thinking out loud and hope it works out for your uncle, Phil!

[johnnie blaze]

Isn't the hunter responsible also to make sure that all of the paperwork is legit and signed properly? I remember several years ago that some hunters were caught at the border because something wasn't signed and they were in serious trouble trying to bring their horns back. Might be tough to get something done if the hunter is in the wrong technically by shooting an animal without a permit. Just kind of thinking out loud and hope it works out for your uncle, Phil!

your avatar is too cool!

[Ernesto C]

A good Outfitter will take care of his client. A good outfitter must be familiar with all the laws pertaining to hunting, guns, and paper work on both sides of the border. It's the outfitters responsibility not only to provide the best service to the hunter but to make sure all the paper work need for his hunter(s) is complete and signed.

 

A hunter should not be making phone calls to both sides of the border investigating what to do and how to do it and what's need it... that's what the outfitter is for; the outfitter should provide all this information to his hunter/client. But of course, if the hunter finds for him self what to do, how to do it and what's needed more power to him.

 

Lots of hunters trust their outfitter and they assume the outfitter will treat them they same way the outfitter will like to be treated... unfortunately is not always the case.

 

In this case, several Federal and State Mexican Agencies can come after Sonoran Outfitters and make him pay for his actions ... I don't know if these Mexican Federal and State offices are aware of this situation.

 

Ernesto C

[Elkhunter1]

When this post started I looked him up and his website stated that the hunter is responsible for all the tags and paperwork needed, such an A$$H)LE!!!!! We need to shut his site down somehow so he can't scam others. Maybe create a website with a very similar name that tells a warning so when he is searched they both pop up.

[Becker]

Just got an email TODAY about a GREAT DEAL on a desert sheep hunt!!! Some how I got on their contact list???

[kazpilot25]

When this post started I looked him up and his website stated that the hunter is responsible for all the tags and paperwork needed, such an A$$H)LE!!!!! We need to shut his site down somehow so he can't scam others. Maybe create a website with a very similar name that tells a warning so when he is searched they both pop up.

 

I do web design, that would be hilarious.