Lv2hnt Report post Posted February 13, 2014 So now an entire 1/3 of the desert bighorn sheep released in the Catalinas have died. A 2-3 year old ram wandered off from the group of 8-10 sheep he'd been a part of --- a sheep doing what sheep do (who knows why ...?). It was determined yesterday that the ram had been killed by a lion. The tom who killed the ram was tracked today, and killed mid-afternoon. Some bad news: 2 of the ewes killed early after the release were pregnant (one just a few weeks pre-delivery). The good news: 2 lambs new on the ground since the release. Hopefully some more to be seen shortly. It's good that 3 male lions have been killed; too bad those lions weren't females. Too bad lions had to be killed AFTER the fact --- MUCH too bad that pre-emptive measures weren't exercised BEFORE the sheep release! My thinking: the entire operation NEVER had a chance at succeeding with the restrictions that were/are in place. With each lion killed in the Catalina Mountains since the sheep release, the indignant posturing of the lion huggers makes itself known more vocally to any who will listen. Their reasoning: "If no sheep had been re-introduced, there would be no lion-killed sheep, and therefore no lions dead on the ground." The thing is, they have no clue as to how many lions actually are alive in the Catalinas --- but be sure, all those cuddly lions need to roam, and multiply, "unmolested.". My concern isn't just about the loss of 11 bighorn sheep. It's much larger than that. The REALLY bad thing about all this --- the lion hunting ban now in California is at our doorstep right here in Arizona. I truly fear the Catalina sheep release fiasco is the first step down a very scary path! The wolf's existence in our state is one thing --- can you picture the state of our big game in Arizona without our being able to control mountain lion numbers? If we don't remain vigilant and VOCAL? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues Kid Report post Posted February 13, 2014 I was talking to my dad yesterday about all this, nobody cared about the lions until they put the sheep in there. since then the cat lovers have made a big deal about killing them but here's the thing everybody is so worried about these sheep. take a minute and think about how many deer we loose from lion attacks or how freaked out deer are up there. Killing 3 lions is not going to make that much of a difference but it will help out the area where the sheep are trying to live. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimmyc Report post Posted February 13, 2014 />I was talking to my dad yesterday about all this, nobody cared about the lions until they put the sheep in there. since then the cat lovers have made a big deal about killing them but here's the thing everybody is so worried about these sheep. take a minute and think about how many deer we loose from lion attacks or how freaked out deer are up there. Killing 3 lions is not going to make that much of a difference but it will help out the area where the sheep are trying to live. Well said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PatrickJr Report post Posted February 13, 2014 My Father has been preaching to project stakeholders for a year and a half that if they did not "prepare the ground" with a proactive predator management plan any subsequent sheep reintroduction with be a "feeding frenzy" for local predators (as it has been). But no one would listen........and look at what you've got now!!!!! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antmo23 Report post Posted February 13, 2014 Its there anyone with lion dogs in that area that'd be willing to run down a few lions to help them sheep? I already have my tag, I'm just sayin.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antmo23 Report post Posted February 13, 2014 And ENOUGH. with the documentation of every freakin lion that gets killed! Quit giving the antis ammo. Just smoke them kitties and keep quite about it the less they know the better. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnie blaze Report post Posted February 13, 2014 Its there anyone with lion dogs in that area that'd be willing to run down a few lions to help them sheep? I already have my tag, I'm just sayin....don't know much about lion hunting dogs but, some pretty rugged country to be following hounds in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnie blaze Report post Posted February 13, 2014 And ENOUGH. with the documentation of every freakin lion that gets killed! Quit giving the antis ammo. Just smoke them kitties and keep quite about it the less they know the better.pretty sure the do-gooders got more watchdogs the AZGFD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antmo23 Report post Posted February 13, 2014 /> Its there anyone with lion dogs in that area that'd be willing to run down a few lions to help them sheep? I already have my tag, I'm just sayin.... don't know much about lion hunting dogs but, some pretty rugged country to be following hounds in.Oh, i know that country, its rough as all heck! But if its doable, I'm in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted February 13, 2014 />Its there anyone with lion dogs in that area that'd be willing to run down a few lions to help them sheep? I already have my tag, I'm just sayin.... Unfortunately unless you are a lion hunter working for the AZGFD you can't hunt lions with dogs in the sheep area due to the closures game and fish imposed. No dogs allowed in the sheep area, and No going off trail in the sheep area. So even if hunters wanted to go predator hunt on their own...they can't! This whole area is off limits to hunters now. More closures and restrictions on hunting in AZ. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antmo23 Report post Posted February 13, 2014 />/>Its there anyone with lion dogs in that area that'd be willing to run down a few lions to help them sheep? I already have my tag, I'm just sayin.... Unfortunately unless you are a lion hunter working for the AZGFD you can't hunt lions with dogs in the sheep area due to the closures game and fish imposed. No dogs allowed in the sheep area, and No going off trail in the sheep area. So even if hunters wanted to go predator hunt on their own...they can't! This whole area is off limits to hunters now. More closures and restrictions on hunting in AZ. WTF?!? What are they thinking?!? I...i ... I'm at a loss of words... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted February 13, 2014 /> Its there anyone with lion dogs in that area that'd be willing to run down a few lions to help them sheep? I already have my tag, I'm just sayin.... Unfortunately unless you are a lion hunter working for the AZGFD you can't hunt lions with dogs in the sheep area due to the closures game and fish imposed. No dogs allowed in the sheep area, and No going off trail in the sheep area. So even if hunters wanted to go predator hunt on their own...they can't! This whole area is off limits to hunters now. More closures and restrictions on hunting in AZ. lmfao. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antmo23 Report post Posted February 13, 2014 Hunters are the only thing that can take out a lion, besides bigger lions! Why cut us out right when they need us, and our guns, the most? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lv2hnt Report post Posted February 13, 2014 For the record, I've never been in the pro-Catalina Mountain sheep release camp. You're mistaken if you think this lion controversy will go away quietly --- talking about it here on CWT isn't driving the issue. it will continue in the public media because the antis (some of whom I believe are on the Catalina Bighorn Advisory committee) want it there. Please re-read the last paragraph in my initial post to this thread. A point of information --- Quote: "Over the past ten years in Game Management Unit (GMU) 33 (which includes the Catalina Mountains) we have seen an increase in lion observations and harvest. This corresponds roughly to an increase in whitetail deer numbers after the Aspen and Bullock fires. Since 2003, the annual harvest of lions in GMU 33 has increased steadily from 7 lions in 2003 to 22 lions in 2012, again suggesting that we have an increasing population that is in congruence with the increased availability of their primary prey, whitetail deer." Although no one knows how many lions there actually are in the Catalinas, the lion density there might just be the highest in our state. They can't be pursued with hounds in the sheep release area, though. Hey, if you want to kill a lion in the Catalinas, go get after it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
