Arrow builders

[AverageJoe]

Extreme foc isnt important. Thats my point. Foc is just a piece of the puzzle. No need to overdo it by using a 175 gn head

[Pac8541]

Extreme foc isnt important. Thats my point. Foc is just a piece of the puzzle. No need to overdo it by using a 175 gn head

 

So how much, and I'm just asking for your opinion here, do you feel this piece of the puzzle should be? What amount of FOC is acceptable to you?

 

Based on the calculations generated by the OT2 software, my combination of shaft, nock, vanes, inserts, and 175gr head yields a FOC of 15.59%. I don't consider that extreme but it is starting to push the higher end. I would agree that some of the "extreme FOC" guys out there preach a bit much. I would agree that there seems to be a somewhat ridiculous obsession lately with who's FOC is bigger. I do not believe I need 30% but half that seems to me to be a very attainable and realistic goal that represents a good compromise. A 150gr head gives me 13.88% and a 125, 11.99. The velocity spread between a 125gr head and a 175 is 24fps. From my perspective, if a certain combination of components gives me equally accurate flight with a quieter shot with better potential penetration then it sounds like a winner. I haven't shot these through a chronograph yet but again, according to OT2, my 515gr arrow is traveling at about 243fps. While I feel that's fast enough, I'm open to your thoughts/experience/advice.

[Pac8541]

Just realized I've kinda said all the above previously in this thread. I don't want to come across as argumentative, at least not on this topic. Yesterday's work schedule kicked my butt and I didn't remember that AverageJoe and I have already touched on this subject. In the end I think he's right on 2 points: 1) "extreme" FOC is trending and I don't know if its truly necessary and, 2) "to each his own," as he pointed out. I'm very pleased with what I'm seeing in these arrows and I think they'll do well.

[JACK]

Why not just build an arrow of equal weight just change the weight distribution...and see if there are any flight differences, penetration gains or losses etc.

[GotBowAz]

Jeff knows I shoot a heavy FOC. But my reasons are not because I feel the penetration is better. All things equal in weight, and I believe this is what JACK is asking about, my experiments leave me with two arrows, one at heavy FOC and one at equal weight all the way through (tubed) both weighing in at 550 tipped with a 100 grain FP finished, giving me the exact same penetration in a virgin target.

 

However I did find that heavier FOC did in fact make for tighter groups, but not by a lot. Out at 40 I'm stacking FOC arrows and ruining fletches. Same arrow tubed to same weight out at 40 there is a noticeable spread. I can only assume that’s because the tail end is much lighter and the arrow corrects much faster coming out of the bow. Spine might also have a play in this factor. The heavier FOC the weaker the spine becomes which in some cases with some bow set ups is what I refer to as a sweet spot. But a tubed arrow won’t change spine, at least not enough to cause dynamic changes because the tube gives with the arrow shaft as it flexes out of the bow. My theory only, I have no proof of this.

 

I ended with a high FOC purely because I wanted the arrows (FMJ’s 340’s) that I prefer just about as heavy as I could make them. So at 28 inches I have a 100 grain brass insert and tip it with a 100 grain BH of choice. I could reduce the insert weight and use a heavier BH but at this point they only make my choice in BH in 100 grains. The next step up would be to go to dangerous game FMJ’s at 17.7 grains per inch. My penetration might be a touch deeper as that overall set up would be right at 600 grains “without” a brass insert for FOC. They would fly pretty well right out of the box as is too.

 

One last note: The 100 grain brass inserts are glued in with the epoxy that comes from the FMJ manufacturers. JB weld would be a good choice too. There is a reason hit inserts are epoxy in and not superglue in. Superglue can and does on occasion break loose on hard impacts which aids in damage to the BH end of the arrows. I use epoxy and the BAR collar and im blowing these arrows threw plywood with zero damage to the shaft end. However my fletches were taking a beating! LOL

 

GBA

[Pac8541]

Eric, out of curiosity what do you consider heavy FOC? With your FMJ's, how heavy are they and how much FOC are you getting with them?

 

The guys at Ross Outdoors ordered me a new factory cable guard for my bow and as soon as I get that installed and the bow tuned correctly, I'm gonna run both arrows through their chronograph. For as much as I'm trying to stay away from using speed as a deciding factor here, it may just come down to that since both seem to be performing extremely well. It all may be a moot point anyway as it appears I didn't make the elk draw... Is there a "pissed off" smiley on here somewhere??

[GotBowAz]

Jeff,

 

I join your frustration with no elk tag…again! Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

 

I never did the math to figure out what my FOC percent is but I got to be pushing 22 percent maybe more. Like you, I think anything over 15 percent would be considered getting up there in the higher end of FOC and 25 percent is getting extreme. I shoot a 28 inch arrow at 11.2 grains an inch , a 100 grain brass insert up front and with a 100 grain BH. That would ALMOST be the same as screwing on a 200 grain BH. I say almost because the 100 grain brass insert goes back in the arrow a good 2.5 inches behind the BH. So an actual 200 grain BH would make a higher FOC. I honestly don’t think there is enough of a difference to matter.

 

Personally I don’t care if my FOC is extreme or not. I just wanted to get to 550 grains total arrow weight tipped with a 100 grain head. I wasn’t really looking for FOC, it just happened to be the best route to get to my minimum desired arrow weight. Along the way I found that the higher FOC produced better tighter groups and was much easier to work with than tubing arrows. Again, my experiments with tubing and heavy FOC didn’t prove squat in a difference when it came to penetration but it made enough difference in grouping that I went to a heavier FOC to achieve my total arrow weight goals.

 

With this set up I will blow my choice of 2 inch mechanicals through an elk with not a whole lot of energy/momentum left over to go out past 10 yards or so. My thoughts are that I am seriously considering hunting wild boar and their sheaths from what I understand are hard to penetrate. I will use the same arrow set up on them but change my BH’s over to slick tricks or VPA’s. Then again, IMO I’m looking at a smaller animal so my holes don’t need to be as big but I still need to achieve a pass through. Otherwise I might boost my arrow weight up another 100 grains or more and use my choice of mechanical BH.

 

GBA

[Pac8541]

I'll go hog hunting with ya!

 

With the 175 head I'm pushing a total of 200gr up front also as the insert (according to Easton's specs) weighs 23gr. I'll give you a call over the weekend, there are a coue questions I have for you unrelated to arrow stuff. I've also got 4 different VPA heads if you wanna try them sometime: 150 and 175 in both 2- and 3- blade.