cmbbulldog Report post Posted January 12, 2014 I was hoping to get some input from the good folks here on the forum. As many, I am debating my choices for the upcoming draw hunts. I am seriously considering as a second choice putting in for the 27 late rifle hunt. Im not guaranteed a tag but should have at least a pretty decent shot at drawing. I havent been in the unit since the fire, so I was hoping for some opinions from folks who have been in the unit late in the year. I understand some of the disadvantages of the late hunt... but still have a few questions. Are the bulls now hanging out in the burn during the late season? 500 tage seems like a lot, but its a big unit, how is the hunting pressure during this season? Are most of the elk migrating into the wildernes areas? Would it be doable without horses, guide? (I would have help to pack one out). Just overall opinions on the hunt in general. I would love to talk with a couple that have hunted this hunt in the past. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted January 12, 2014 I will be putting in for that hunt as well. Have been drawn for it once in 2005. Most of the good bulls migrate off the top before the hunt starts. Best hunting will be down in the canyons, and ridges. Lots of camps at the popular trail heads. This hunt requires a lot of boot leather. Horses / mules are a huge plus. 18% draw odds, and a 63% harvest for that hunt last year. As usual, G&F is adding more permits, when they shouldn't . If you want to hire an outfitter, contact DC outfitters, they run a base camp down on the Blue, and use horses to travel and pack out. There may be some guy's on this site you can hire? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues79 Report post Posted January 12, 2014 500 tags will definitely increase the pressure this upcoming year and it will definitely be felt by those that draw the tag. At this moment, the winter we are having is going to play a factor on antler growth. Its really really dry right now and no moisture in sight in the near future. Big, huge rough country off the rim. Its a huge unit but it will definitely be hit hard; always is and with the tag increase it'll be worse, even in the country that you would expect to be alone in.... more and more people are going deeper and further to try and get away from people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
singleshot Report post Posted January 13, 2014 63% percent success pretty much tells you that they have been hammering the bulls. You can now see into the hillsides and canyons that had always held elk but were invisible before the fire. problem is that 90% of that 63% are the raghorns and up and comers. Boom and then bust. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cohntr6 Report post Posted January 13, 2014 Chad, You are no stranger to getting away from the crowds and hunting. You can do it with out a guide or horses, yes, once a bull is down it would be nice to have horses but that is what friends are for, right? LOL I love the unit and even though the last couple years I have been hunting it 2 months before the late rifle hunters I hear some (not all) of the elk are staying in the burn (as long as the snow isnt too deep) because that is where the good feed is. The barley that was seeded right after the fire is tapering off its growth in most places so I imagine migrating habits will go back to the way they were before the fire in the next few years. I mention that because the barley is a huge part of their diet (along with the new aspen growth-that will stick around) but like I said it wont be soon. The last two years lots of bulls were taken off Middle mountain but there is also a lot of hunters. Yes 500 tags is a lot but tag numbers are up because there is MORE elk than years past. Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted January 15, 2014 All great and accurate comments from those that posted above. The most frustrating to me is the most hunting pressure I have experienced in 40 years last year. Most of the elk are now concentrated in 50% or less of the real estate verses the pre-Wallow Fire era. Horn quality peaked in 2012 and will continue to decline due to the barley dying out (by design) and the increased hunter success due to visibility changes from the fire. Elk populations are now 50% of what they were in 1999 due mostly to the Wallow Fire consequences, and reintroduction of the Mexican Grey Wolf. AGFD admits that this trend is aligned with their intentions for the unit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmbbulldog Report post Posted January 15, 2014 I appreciate the comments from everyone. Decisions to make for sure. Maybe I will just make my brother draw the tag so I can learn the area better Or I could just apply with Jeff on the archery tag... he seems to be good at drawing that tag 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Becker Report post Posted January 15, 2014 Alpinebullwinkle, Can you post a link or something to where you are getting your 50% decrease statistic in the elk heard so I can check that out??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cohntr6 Report post Posted January 16, 2014 LOL. I only have 2 points, Chad, but you are more than welcome! Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted January 25, 2014 Becker my information comes from living in the area since 1986 (camping on weekends since 1971) hunting every September and November for elk and also most of the deer hunts. Spending about 200 days a year in the forest probably is more accurate than any surveys that are taken randomly. Just guessing I have spent more time in the forest than most or all of the wildlife biologists. Sorry I don't have a link to refer you to but you do have your personal choice where to get your information and who you chose to believe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mc68 Report post Posted January 25, 2014 Ya I have to agree with Alpine on the numbers having decreased. I too have ran around up there since the eighties and there are far fewer elk now than even ten years ago. Yes there are still elk, but anyone who has spent a lot of time in the unit for a many consecutive years will tell you the population is without any doubt decreasing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted January 25, 2014 Anybody else tired of saying "there are too many tags for xxx hunt"? Sure wish AZGFD (the head honchos, not the boots on the ground) cared about our elk and deer herds and not the revenue generated from wildlife... Sorry for the hijack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted January 25, 2014 The fire will help a lot. It always does Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mc68 Report post Posted January 27, 2014 Desert, not meaning any disrespect but what do you mean by fire will help a lot? The population could boom no doubt, but it is not in the management plan to allow that. In the late eighties and early nineties you could literally drive around on any given logging road and see herd after herd crossing in front of you. The numbers were very high. Then, the plan changed and it was decided to reduce numbers and they have done that heavily since then. I agree that there is good forage now but I guarantee you that they have no intention of letting the populations boom again. I'm not sure why, but I know that the days of driving around and seeing hundreds of elk up there are gone for good. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted January 27, 2014 I am saying that fire helps the habitat, as far as elk and deer go, in the long run. What the G&F do with the extra elk is a different subject. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
