AZLance Report post Posted January 11, 2014 http://kold.videodownload.worldnow.com/KOLD_20140111001012317AA.mp4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pine Donkey Report post Posted January 11, 2014 Yes, your tax dollars are sitting on the hillside in the form of lion poop! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted January 11, 2014 There's a reason the lions were eradicated up there... LIONS! Guess what... They're still there, so why put more lion food up there for them?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
520HUNT Report post Posted January 12, 2014 Do you think game and fish has a preset number of sheep that can be killed before they quit the reintroduction? Just wondering how many sheep they anticipated would be killed, and if there is a point that they will walk away from this specific reintroduction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted January 12, 2014 well, the previous number of every sheep in the mountains wasn't enough so we will see if there is such a number that exist! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pine Donkey Report post Posted January 12, 2014 Do you think game and fish has a preset number of sheep that can be killed before they quit the reintroduction? Just wondering how many sheep they anticipated would be killed, and if there is a point that they will walk away from this specific reintroduction. If this is the case, is there a preset number of wolves that need to be killed before that project is abandoned also? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowfishAZ Report post Posted January 12, 2014 As long as those cats are eating sheep and not whitetail who cares?? I like the guy with the lion mask in the video... What a turd!!! Tell that guy to go hug another tree!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewp45 Report post Posted February 2, 2014 I think the the money should go into mountain lion control before they just release sheep back into an area that the sheep nuse to reside but were no longer because the lions got too numerous and ate every last sheep on the mountain. There is a very aggressive mountain lion control campaign going on in the Kofas right now. They have wiped a ton of lions out of the area. But why wait until they go from over a thousand to under 100 before action is taken. In the Kofas the Down turn started in around the year 2000. We had trail cams on tanks and one in particular in 2000 had some absolute Giant mule deer bucks a good number of sheep and other game. This water hole was 3 miles from any road and there wasnt one time we checked the camera on that hole that year where we weren't regularly seeing 10+ shooter muleys 170" or way better an giant rams in numbers about the same. In a two week period we would get a couple hundred big game pics even on the slowest times.One buck was probably 21"wide and would go 195"- 200" I have pics. So this waterhole was dancing with game. Next year comes along. Water hole area is nice and green as the year before and the tank is full. Not really any natural water pretty much the exact same conditions as the year before. First 2 checks on the camera not an animal on the third trek in I checked the camera to find we finally had just a couple of pictures but at least something had come by. 1st pic was a doe, ok well at least there were some deer still in the area (wrong) 2nd picture was 30 minutes later at 2:30 am and it was a big old Tom following probably the last deer in the vicinity yet to be killed. We went straight to US Fish and Wildlife showing them those pictures between the two years and other trail cams at other waters with cats on all of them and a momma with 2 cubs. So they went into action right away, they band all uses of any type of trail cameras on wildlife refuges and still denied the existence of any lions on the Kofa range. A man that I respect very highly and is a very humble man that knows as much about the Kofas as any other person I know Robert Dunn. Started taking me to the Kofas in late 1990's after college along with his son and nephew and would take us on weekend trips around the entire refuge just showing us the multitude of sheep in the country as well as deer. Going deer hunting out of Willbanks cabin and opening day everyone seeing mature bucks and tons of sheep and most tagged out on nice bucks and spent Saturday packing them out on the old home made bicycle tire stretchers they would make to make it easier to get deer and sheep out of that rocky country in one piece. Then as we began to get the lion pictures that quiet humble man spoke up as loud as he could but no one cared until a survey number that was unbelievable came back and from 2001 - 2009 that sheep heard that 20 years prior helpped 22 and 24B get to become the 2 desert sheep mecca units that they are today from transplants out of the kofas, to put both of these units as normally having the highest average scoring sheep that are harvested in the state today, there numbers were so high in the Kofas they could afford to easily take a good number of sheep out to help an area that was suffering in sheep numbers, to make a suitable place to transplant Kofa Sheep where they could have enough food and water to fully express the capability of the genes that the Kofa Sheep heard had the capability of expressing. In those 8 years that robust heard went from over 1,000 animals to around 100 maybe. They say it was partially drought and loss of feed. In time of a drought sheep only have to get water less than any other animal in our desert but when they have to get water they have to get a lot and this takes longer than the other animals to fill their "reserves" the lions don't have to travel to get food they sit at the few water sources and pick off those magnificent animals one at a time. A friend of mine has more dead head pick ups than probably anyone in the world of Big Horn sheep and everyone came from the Kofas and about 90% of all of thos pick ups were during that 8 year period and almost all of them were with in 500 yards of a waterhole and looked to be lion kills with most of the muzzles crushed and the heads and bones were most always drugg up into a bush or tree. I have become a sheep nut the last 5 years and I have watched a mountain range and its healthy population bloom in the last 5 years. Keeping cameras on every water hole in the range. I never have caught a mountain lion on a camera there annd I always figured because I have never had a deer on a camera in the range well during the middle of December I got my first cat on one tank and am in the process of getting a couple cameras that send you the pics by email as they are taken so I can call a friend who is a houndsman with two sets of great dogs that will take care of a problem before it gets started. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted February 2, 2014 Way to be pro-active MathewP. Lions need to be kept in check, or our sheep will vanish. I think there are more problems, other than just lions, but they play a major factor in sheep and other animal 3#'s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted February 2, 2014 This is the same govt that decides to grant amnesty before securing the border so not getting control of the lions before releasing the sheep is not a surprise. Its like wiping your butt before you poop. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
520HUNT Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Now it's up to 9 dead bighorns. http://azstarnet.com/news/local/ninth-bighorn-released-north-of-tucson-has-died/article_fe343e0c-9035-11e3-a9c4-001a4bcf887a.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted February 8, 2014 I'm just saddened by the loss of hunting opportunity this failed expierment has caused. These 9 sheep especially the ewes that were pregnant are a loss of hunting opportunity in the units they were captured from. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted February 8, 2014 I certainly don't fault the G&F, for trying to re-establish a Sheep population in the Catalinas. It would be a good thing if they survived, but now it looks like it has become some pretty expensive cat food. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muledeerarea33? Report post Posted February 8, 2014 Predator management should be the first priority! If the g&f want then to survive they need to control the predator population and protect the prey. Very hard todo though when your in the spot light and the "anti everything!" Don't want anything to die. They'd rather have the lions trained to shake hands and slap the sheep on the as$ for a good game than control the population. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
520HUNT Report post Posted February 8, 2014 I certainly don't fault the G&F, for trying to re-establish a Sheep population in the Catalinas. It would be a good thing if they survived, but now it looks like it has become some pretty expensive cat food. I don't fault them for trying, but in their initial report on the Pusch Ridge area, it had the highest lion concentrations of all of the proposed sites. I do fault them for NOT addressing the predator population before the reintroduction began. It is only common sense to realize the lions would have a field day. And this after the big lion controversy a few years ago in Sabino Canyon. The department should have known this would turn into a big public relations nightmare with the liberal AZ Star reporting on it daily. I just wonder at what point the department will walk away from this reintroduction? If more than 50% of the sheep are eaten? Or if all of them are eventually eaten? Or do they just keep reintroducing(feeding the lions). Right now we are are at 30% of the sheep dead! and this after only 3 months. At this pace, we will reach the 50% mortality rate by the beginning of April. I'm glad I'm not in G&Fs shoes. Tough decisions ahead. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
