The statement of a lifetime

[coues7]

I found this quote very intersting.....it's from Jim's new book Deer of the Southwest

 

"An increasingly intersted public was growing discontented over the inflexibility of regulations that were at that time [and still today] governed by the legislature. As was see in state after state, wildlife management canno operate properly in the political arena. These groups [game protective associations.....us hunters....the ADA, etc] and began to lobby hard for the seperation of wildlife managment and politics, and the made some remarkable headway in early wildlife conservation in the Southwest"

 

Now I'm not trying to start a battle here (which I probably will), but this sounds like the present day AZGFD.....commision member appointed by the govenor.....to pursue their interests.....not those of us who actually care to protect and conserve wildlife.

 

From what I'm told (and I could be completely off base here), permit numbers this year were not based on what game wardens and biologist recommended but on politics. I suppose the QUANTITY....I mean lining corrupt agency pockets is more important than QUALITY AND CONSERVATION.

 

This is just my 2 cents but that the way I see it!

 

I would like to thank our legislature and appointed officials for their great efforts! SARCASM AT IT'S PEAK!!!!

 

Scott

[DesertBull]

From what I have read and heard, the way the G&F estimates deer numbers is a joke. If you do not have a reasonably accurate count, how can you calculate the correct number of tags to be issued.

[mattys281]

I've read a couple studies where they estimate deer herd by having reserches walk trails & spot animals on hillsides, etc. Basically it sounded like they took the number of deer spotted per a certain size piece of land & multiplied it out to estimate number in that particular area. Another study used helicopters to spot on larger pieces of land. I have no idea how they currently do it, but it seems like that would be a particularly difficult thing to estimate, as mobile as deer are and as much as their concentrations seem to fluctuate.

[cmc]

Monday morning quarterbacking is quite intresting... but it usually involves a little of... 'here's what I'd have done'...

 

 

soo... what would you do?

 

cmc

[DesertBull]

Monday morning quarterbacking is quite intresting... but it usually involves a little of... 'here's what I'd have done'...

 

 

soo... what would you do?

 

cmc

 

 

I'm not a biologist. I just know that the ADA spent a lot of money doing a deer count on the Kaibab last year and the numbers they came up with and the number the G&F had were way different. Seems I remember that the G&F uses models to determine deer estimates and not actual counts.

 

http://www.azdeer.org/kaibab_article.htm

 

http://www.azdeer.org/kaibab_trip_summary.htm

[reddog]

I bet Bill Q knows how the G&F does there deer counts.

 

Reddog

[dave]

1. Implement mandatory survey reporting by hunters. You must give a specimen from the harvested animal or surrender the unused tag or you will not be eligible to hunt the next year.

 

2. Establish an agreed upon model (I thought we did) of how we would survey animals.

 

3. Require that a designated representative from hunter groups approves each survey of every species in every game management unit.

 

4. Require the Commissioners to enforce the established model or be removed.

 

5. Require this to be stated in the 2012 strategic plan for 2012 before they vote and accept the limpy proposal Dec. 9th..

 

6. Establish a new method of selecting Commissioners that is decided by the people that pay for game management. I believe those people fish and hunt.

 

7. Prohibit ballot initiatives that affect game management from people that do not hunt or fish.

 

I could go on, what do you guys think?

[jgabler]

I think you are right on the money. I also think that the quantity of hunts available during the non rut was a bunch of balogni. From what I have seen here and talking to other people, there have been a lot of bucks killed this year. I don't think that creating more tags decreased the success rate one bit overall. No matter what time of year you make a hunt, there are still going to be animals killed.

Also, I think that if a person gets drawn for a hunt, they can not get drawn for that species for the next two years. What do you all think? Maybe a minimum point limit also to allow the smaller bucks to get bigger?

[dave]

You are right on Mr. Gabe.

 

8. Certain successful hunt applicants must wait a period of time before applying again. This will really not make a % impact much on anyone's chance to draw but it will make it FAIRER!!! This will result in a loss of revenue to the Department from folks that may not apply because they will not be eligible. Ironically you should all hear Rico's argument..."this would not affect your chances to draw enough to change anything. If we stop people from applying, they will just be replaced by people that quit applying and so the numbers will be the same". The people quit applying because they were not drawn. So now, with all their passion for hunting they will start applying again.

 

Anyone tired of this??? Can anyone see someone must be making money from application fees??? Can anyone spell MONY?

 

Although I agree with the antler point limit idea in respect to harvesting mature animals, that will never fly, nor is it practical.

 

9. Count the first two choices of the application when determining how to split the pie on hunts affected by the pie allocation process. It is not FAIR to count only the first choice when many harvest animals from their second choice. What we have now is O.K., but we could make it FAIRER and better.

[dave]

We have 12 big game species here in Arizona. We have numerous small game species. We have opportunity up the yingyang. Lets make our hunting fair and encourage folks to participate in the opportunity we have. We have lost some opportunity from the lion hunt season, trapping, what is next?

[bowhuntinmaniac]

C'mon Dave,

Since Tice left the dept. the changes have been astounding. We lost 1 week off of archery javelina, they tried to put 1/2 of archery bull tags in November....remember?

And, they say they are doing this to create more opportunity, which you and I know is a bunch of crap.

[AZP&Y]

Dave,

 

I count 10 big game, which ones are the other 2? Condor and the Wolf

 

Nice Coues!

 

AzP&Y

Doug

[DesertBull]

I think you are right on the money. I also think that the quantity of hunts available during the non rut was a bunch of balogni. From what I have seen here and talking to other people, there have been a lot of bucks killed this year. I don't think that creating more tags decreased the success rate one bit overall. No matter what time of year you make a hunt, there are still going to be animals killed.

Also, I think that if a person gets drawn for a hunt, they can not get drawn for that species for the next two years. What do you all think? Maybe a minimum point limit also to allow the smaller bucks to get bigger?

 

 

Maybe there are more big deer being killed in the earlier hunts because there are more people in the field?

[dave]

AZP&Y,

 

Although your idea would save millions of dollars, I am afraid the mere mention of it might get you thrown in prison or executed.

 

I was thinking of Rocky Mountain sheep and Gould’s turkey.

 

bowhuntinmaniac,

 

That is why I think number nine above is important.

[dave]

C'mon Dave,

Since Tice left the dept. the changes have been astounding. We lost 1 week off of archery javelina, they tried to put 1/2 of archery bull tags in November....remember?

And, they say they are doing this to create more opportunity, which you and I know is a bunch of crap.

 

 

Well, I stood up at the April hunt set meeting to say something about javelina and was all alone there. Since I don’t hunt them, I haven’t counted the number of tags they have annually overall in all weapon groups. You might be surprised to see there is enough tags (opportunity) now to wipe them out. I did read the public comment sent by Tice to support previous studies conducted by respectable biologists but it didn’t carry any weight with the newbee’s.

I think the next best thing will be the Commission voting to approve the Department selling DVD’S of animals on the endangered list. They could pull up videos from years ago when mule deer lived in Arizona. With the waiting list I am sure they will have for the new videos, they will also implement a online credit card method for paying for these video’s.

Soon to follow, you will be able to buy bonus points to advance your position in line to buy the videos. If this works out, maybe they will follow the model set by folks in Mexico and offer tags based on high your fence is and how much feed you can force down a coues throat to make his antlers bigger.