Lions

[hawkeye]

Good for you buddy.

 

 

Spoken like a true Game and Fish man.

 

"The big bucks are! where you BUY them."

[WHT_MTNMAN]

If a lousy glasser like me can glass up two lions in a year and get two shots at one,(don't ask) then there are too many lions. In upper reaches of Sierrita Mtns 3 lions were spotted by 3 different hunters within 3 miles of each other on the same day that is quite a few. I actually enjoy seeing them sleeping under a tree, quite different from the few I've seen in a tree with hounds at the bottom. I enjoy seeing that too

[Becker]

I have been on a deer drive in that Three Bar Enclosure......there were lots of deer in there but I was dissapointed as to seeing some monster racks that I thought I would see. there were some nice ones but maybe that 240 was on the opposite side of the enclosure than me hahaha...I thought that some results came out showing some of the deer densities inside vs outside that enclosure. At least that is what I had heard of.

 

I tend to agree with Littlebear on the lion deal though....perhaps cause I went through college with him....I never knew you worked for game and fish littlebear....I guess some people ARE NOT as smart as they think they ARE....

 

The problem that I see is all of this word of mouth stuff. Any story ends up getting over exagerated. Yeah some are true but the majority aren't....

 

I think everyone that thinks there is this massive problem needs to get together and do some study that proves what comes out of their mouth....Show us some hard facts. Not surveys of people out there, but true hard facts. Only problem in my opinion is most of those complaining are great internet hunters that think they are the next expert but couldn't find their way across an open field.

[COUESAZ]

Becker

 

on what issue are you wanting hard facts. Is it the post that started this about lions running in a pack. or that there are more lions out there than we thought.

 

 

I can tell you this with no doubt the one that started this post about the packs is me and i am not an internet hunter that could not find his way across an open field. Others on the board will have to talk for them selvs. But by some of the pictures i have seen from this year and the guy's i do know i would say that the internet hunter on this forum is very low.

 

Not wanting to fight but looking for clarity in your remark. I know you and Andy put in some good time in the Field hunting. Just remember alot of us were hunting when you were a twinkle in the eye Of your Father.

 

Thanks.

[Becker]

I was just talking about hard numbers of animals out there. I am not questioning lions running together etc. It just seems that all of the sudden everyone thinks there are lion problems and high numbers because they have been seen together. Just cause people have been seeing them together doesn't mean anything about numbers. Put together hard facts to prove these huge increases in the lion populations thats my point. Wasn't bashing on your post or point just some of the other comments.

[onlycoues]

hello, i'm new to the forum. I was hunting near Benson in oct. on a deer hunt and my hunting partner glassed up three lions. they were watching a doe and fawn. They tried for the doe first but ended up killing the fawn. my partner watched the whole thing unfold. We made our way over to the lions and took two. On that hunting trip we saw a total of nine lions within 7 miles. I have a friend in benson who said he can see the impact the lions are having on the deer herds. Hay onlycouse, were you in unit 32 or 33?

 

 

Katkiller

 

I was in area 32. I believe I heard you talking about the lions on the radios. Just so you all know, looking back on it now, it makes sense that they didnt have a tag and thats why they left it but it really didnt occur to me at the time. I guess I was just caught up in the moment and I really wish I had gotten thier plate.

My buddy may have run into the same people. That is why I asked the unit you were in. How did you do in 32 for deer? I really have taken a liking to unit 32 and 33.

 

 

 

Katkiller

 

Unit 32 was a disaster this year for mule deer. I only heard of one person getting a buck over a 2x2. Most hunters I know didnt even see a buck. My dad is hunting whitetail in 32 dec hunt and I am hunting whitetail 30a dec.

[COUESAZ]

Yes it has turned from what it started out as. That seems to be the way most threads go. I would have to agree that there IMO more lions around now than what we used to see. Now it may be because there are more of us out and using more technology that we have. The fact of the matter is that people are seeing more now than they used to. I would say that peoples word is a kind of fact. They are the ones out seeing them. I know i see them so others can as well. Like i said i do not say for sure this is a spike in numbers or a spike in them coming closer to were people are and people to were lions are. I know some people will say they saw a lion and in fact they never have, But when you spend lots of time in COues country your chance will increas alot. I like to see all opinions but yes it is true they are just opinions backed by some facts and some fiction.

 

Thanks.

 

And please let us know what your finds are about lions in packs if you see it or not.

[firstcoueswas80]

I was just talking about hard numbers of animals out there. I am not questioning lions running together etc. It just seems that all of the sudden everyone thinks there are lion problems and high numbers because they have been seen together. Just cause people have been seeing them together doesn't mean anything about numbers. Put together hard facts to prove these huge increases in the lion populations thats my point. Wasn't bashing on your post or point just some of the other comments.

 

 

i agree with this, it seems all of a sudden this year there is a HUGE boom of lions. i dont know why that is but this is the first year i have heard or read about so many people seeing so many lions. maybe the groups of lions are all young lions running together? i know the two lion that my buddy and i killed were young ones that were together. probably brothers as they were both males and of the same age and size. maybe now that more hunters have the big eyes they are seeing more lions. the lions that have always been there, but now can just be seen.

[wetmule]

African lions are the only cats in the big cat family that have any kind of social structure and actually like hanging out together, hunt, eat, sleep together etc. within their pride and their territory. Most big cats have a mutual disdane for each other except during their respective breeding seasons. More than likely what some have seen this year is a mother with her young or adolescent cats she has not yet kicked out of the house (so to speak) or siblings that are still hanging out before they split up to fend for themselves. I don't think this is anything new here 15-20 years ago I've seen the same thing a few times with 2-4 Mtn. Lions roaming around the hills of southern AZ. That doesn't mean there are not more lions in AZ now than back in the day 15 years ago, I personally don't know one way or the other. I am saying I think it's pretty common to see a few together now and again.

[DesertBull]

Let's not forget, Bobcats can and do eat deer also, not just lions and yotes.

[COUESAZ]

What i am beeing told by the Rancher's is they are killing in packs. I know that young lions will hang with Momma a little while. The ones i have seen with my own eyes are not a Mom, and young cats they have been full grown adult Cats. This may have been going on for years , but not that i have seen. Any ways it is all good info that you are all bringing to the table. It seems that lots of us have seen the same thing.

[mattys281]

What do you guys think are the best units to see cats in? I've only ever come across one, but would really like to see some more. Anyone have any luck calling them in, or is it mostly chance encounters? Thanks.

[DesertBull]

What do you guys think are the best units to see cats in? I've only ever come across one, but would really like to see some more. Anyone have any luck calling them in, or is it mostly chance encounters? Thanks.

 

 

Anywhere you are seeing a lot of deer, there will be lions around.

[tucrats]

Could the POSSIBLE increase in Mountain Lion Population have anything to do with us moving in on their TURF.

 

Contractors are buying as much land as possible anywhere they came and are Building houses like crazy!

For example, when you drive up either the Catalina Moutains or Any mountain range NOW has a house (or two) right at the base!

 

I believe technology has played a fator in BEING able to see more, But how much of an ipact do we have with the second fastest growing state in the Nation? Have they always been there but now we can see them or have we pushed these cats into a tighter group which means you may get Packs? Or Possibly it's a combination of both or something else, water, food, territory...etc.

 

I am only a novice, however I personally saw a Mountain Lion Myself within the last six months in a neighborhood in unit 34b, I have also seen fresh tracks, scat and remains of kills.

 

All of this jibberish is only my OPINION. As with most everbody else unless we have Hard Facts.

[KGAINES]

Is it just me or do predators cycle with the game, if there is plenty of game the predators will multiply, then when the game population gets reduced, it may takes a few years for the predator population to decrease, but in that span is when they will really hurt the deer population. That is not to mention that drought conditions probably hurt the animals that feed on plants more than anything, all of these stock tanks and man made water sources are used by all animals predators and prey, and if there are very few places to water then ambush points for predators are narrowed down, now we have weakened malnourished thirsty deer that become easy prey. The only thing that I can think of is to buy a lion tag and use it if you get the chance, and if I am not mistaken there are several units that have harvest objectives that allow more than one lion to be taken. If they are hunting in packs nature will eventually turn on them and they will turn on each other, but the sad part is that that will take place when food becomes scarce. Us moving in on their territory will kill them off faster than anything, but it will also reduce all the game in those areas. (except for yotes since they adapt to anything)