Lions

[firstcoueswas80]

i think they point on the advance in technology (binos, game cameras) is a very good point. becase we can see so far and basically, where ever we want, we can look for lions all day. there is no way to fight it that lions do their fair share, maybe more of killing deer. i dont know about the whole deal that a lion will kill a deer a week, dont know how much i believe that because i think if a lion killed a deer a week, there would be carcasses literally everywhere... think about it one lion killing 52 deer a year... i think we would have a whole lot more bodies found. fact of the matter is lions, along with ( i believe) lack of rain fall, and houses popping up right in the middle of the coues country are factors that are affecting the population the most. coyotes add to that as i think they take a few more deer (mostly fawns) then people give them credit for taking.

[mattys281]

I don't know the exact stats, but when I lived in Prescott Valley, it seemed like some years you'd see antelop fawns every where right after they were born & then a week or two later you'd be lucky to see any. The guy that owned the local archery store had told me that some years when it was dry & fawns were weak the mortality rate would be close to 100%, mostly due to coyotes. They're very efficient & incredibly well adapted at getting by in what are crap conditions for other animals. I once read that over 60% of their diet was vegetable matter & of the other 40% it was mostly insects & small rodents. Add trash cans & small pets to the menu, thanks to all the housing developments, & it's a virtual all-you-can-eat buffet for them.

[couesmaster]

i saw a documentary on tv and i believe it was done by azgfd i may be wrong but they fenced off i believe a mile sqare had deer in it. out in the middle of the hills and they watched those deer in the fence and the ones free roaming for a couple of years and the only difference was out side the fence were the predators mainly coyotes. same rainfall and vegetation and the deer outside the fence didnt fare well compared to the ones inside the fence . anybody every here or see anything about this .

[bowhuntinmaniac]

I cant remember the name of it, but it is southwest of Roosevelt Lake a few miles.

[az4life]

Three bar wildlife preserve

[billrquimby]

"i saw a documentary on tv and i believe it was done by azgfd i may be wrong but they fenced off i believe a mile sqare had deer in it. out in the middle of the hills and they watched those deer in the fence and the ones free roaming for a couple of years and the only difference was out side the fence were the predators mainly coyotes. same rainfall and vegetation and the deer outside the fence didnt fare well compared to the ones inside the fence . anybody every here or see anything about this ."

 

Jim Hefflefinger can comment better about what the study on the Three Bar showed/is showing, but I can comment on how wily the animals some of you guys call "carp" can be.

 

About 1990 or so, I met the area's wildlife manager (whose name I've forgotten) in Pumpkin Center and followed him to the enclosure to do a feature article for the Tucson Citizen. Roughly 640 acres -- one square mile -- of typical desert habitat overlooking Roosevelt Lake is surrounded by a 3-meter-tall fence and I had visions of seeing lots of deer inside the "pen."

 

If it were flat terrain it would be easy to understand why we didn't. But the enclosure was long and narrow, encompassing a long canyon, and there was a good glassing spot at the top. I remember that we saw only one small buck and several javelinas in a half hour's glassing right after sunup. There were three or four bucks and a number of does and fawns inside at the time, the WM said, but we never saw them.

 

There also was a doe with a bell on its neck, and we kept hearing the bell tinking near us but couldn't find the deer.

 

I eventually got up and walked across the little canyon to see if I could find the doe. I almost stepped on her before we made eye contact and she jumped up and ran off. She had been hiding in a little grass-covered cut, with her neck stretched out on the ground just 75 yards or so from where we had been glassing.

 

So much for dumb ol' mule deer.

 

I saw a trophy class 4x4 mule deer buck do the same thing when hunting antelope on the White Mountain Apache Reservation way back when it cost a whopping $25 extra to hunt there.

 

Bill Quimby

[muleybull]

Is this a new breed of lion? Cause I just saw a pleathera of lions running through the middle of town chasing dog packs.

 

I treed a pack of 8 lions last month, and they all came out of the tree and killed all my dogs and my huntng partner. I barely made it back to the truck. I had a lion claw stuck in the back of my leg that the doctor had to pull out later.

 

Lucky.

[COUESAZ]

Lucky

 

It sounds like you were one of the "LUCKY" ones. Yes this new breed of lions are man eating dog killing Lions. Lets all get our pitch forks and go after them.

[scout4u]

ahh crap i just took my pitchfork to the shop can i bring my shovel insted

[onlycoues]

hello, i'm new to the forum. I was hunting near Benson in oct. on a deer hunt and my hunting partner glassed up three lions. they were watching a doe and fawn. They tried for the doe first but ended up killing the fawn. my partner watched the whole thing unfold. We made our way over to the lions and took two. On that hunting trip we saw a total of nine lions within 7 miles. I have a friend in benson who said he can see the impact the lions are having on the deer herds. Hay onlycouse, were you in unit 32 or 33?

 

 

Katkiller

 

I was in area 32. I believe I heard you talking about the lions on the radios. Just so you all know, looking back on it now, it makes sense that they didnt have a tag and thats why they left it but it really didnt occur to me at the time. I guess I was just caught up in the moment and I really wish I had gotten thier plate.

[buddydog]

hello, i'm new to the forum. I was hunting near Benson in oct. on a deer hunt and my hunting partner glassed up three lions. they were watching a doe and fawn. They tried for the doe first but ended up killing the fawn. my partner watched the whole thing unfold. We made our way over to the lions and took two. On that hunting trip we saw a total of nine lions within 7 miles. I have a friend in benson who said he can see the impact the lions are having on the deer herds. Hay onlycouse, were you in unit 32 or 33?

 

 

Katkiller

 

I was in area 32. I believe I heard you talking about the lions on the radios. Just so you all know, looking back on it now, it makes sense that they didnt have a tag and thats why they left it but it really didnt occur to me at the time. I guess I was just caught up in the moment and I really wish I had gotten thier plate.

My buddy may have run into the same people. That is why I asked the unit you were in. How did you do in 32 for deer? I really have taken a liking to unit 32 and 33.

[hawkeye]

Guys--

 

Its been shown time after time that the lions aren't "wiping out" the deer herds. There are far too many factors as to what makes deer populations fluctuate. Drought, coyotes, habitat loss, and urbanization are a few.

 

It's not as cut and dry as "kill all the lions and the deer herds rebound!," it might help in some areas, but the efforts to carry out such an eradication to make all the deer hunters happy would far out weigh the benefits.

 

 

Hey Little Bear, sounds like you work for our wonderful Game and Fish Dept. Your response sounds exactly like every conversation I have had with Game and Fish officials. Not just with the lion problem but with the decline of deer herds, over hunted areas, and other topics. Our Game and Fish Dept. cares about "MONEY" and nothing else. So if anyone thinks they can count on your Arizona Game and Fish Dept. to take care of a problem, think again. Unless they can find a way to make big money on a problem, the problem doesn't exist.

[Azlongears]

"Hey Little Bear, sounds like you work for our wonderful Game and Fish Dept. Your response sounds exactly like every conversation I have had with Game and Fish officials. Not just with the lion problem but with the decline of deer herds, over hunted areas, and other topics. Our Game and Fish Dept. cares about "MONEY" and nothing else. So if anyone thinks they can count on your Arizona Game and Fish Dept. to take care of a problem, think again. Unless they can find a way to make big money on a problem, the problem doesn't exist."

 

 

 

Hawkeye- The biggest threat to Az wildlife is the uneducated public (like you) that make statements like you just did. If you got it so figured out, we need you in our AZGFD Commission!!! Nahh, it is way easier to sit back and complain and do nothing. I'm sure "Deernut" feels real welcome on this site with you making statements like that.

[hawkeye]

"Hey Little Bear, sounds like you work for our wonderful Game and Fish Dept. Your response sounds exactly like every conversation I have had with Game and Fish officials. Not just with the lion problem but with the decline of deer herds, over hunted areas, and other topics. Our Game and Fish Dept. cares about "MONEY" and nothing else. So if anyone thinks they can count on your Arizona Game and Fish Dept. to take care of a problem, think again. Unless they can find a way to make big money on a problem, the problem doesn't exist."

 

 

 

Hawkeye- You're a tool. The biggest threat to Az wildlife is the uneducated public (like you) that make statements like that. If you got it so figured out, we need you in our AZGFD Commission!!! Nahh, it is way easier to sit back and complain and do nothing. Go read a book.

 

WoW! Boy did I hit a nerve or what. If I am so dumb how did I figure out your profesion. I have been hunting AZ since before you were a gleam in your Daddy's eye. I've watched, as the Game and Fish has evolved into a mega-money machine, and be damned the sportsman and game of Arizona. I was there when last year, the Commision rejected the petition, the Deer Association presented showing overwhelming distain with the restructuring of the whitetail season. More money, and they thought less deer. I saw more people with 2 point dinks this year than ever. I wonder why the deer herds are so low. And as for uneducated, I'll put my education up against your four years of propaganda any time any place.

[Azlongears]

Good for you buddy.