Mule deer and Antelope in AZ

[Coach]

I've been wondering this a long time, and just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

I'll start with Mule deer. Of course, the North part of AZ, along the strip is the home of giant bucks. The Navajo Nation on the N/ NE portions of Az, the Jicarila in NW NM, Southern Utah, SW Colorado, extreme Southern AZ and into Mexico are all destinations for monster mule deer. Even unit 27 in AZ, at one time was loaded with big mulies, and huge numbers of deer. I remember one of my first hunts in AZ ever, I went to Alma NM, then back into AZ, and there were deer everywhere, and some really nice bucks. I had no glass, and no idea what I was doing but I still saw huge mule deer and had opportunities at some bucks I would love to see again, with a little more knowledge to go on.

 

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like whenever I travel to Southern Utah, SW Colorado, West New Mexico, even NE AZ, there are tons of mule deer, and great genetics, that spread down into Mexico, but the central portions of AZ seem to have low-to-medium density, and modest trophy quality. It seems like much of AZ is almost a void compared to all of the areas around us. Same habitat, same feed from what I can tell, just lower numbers and smaller bucks.

 

And to Antelope/Pronghorn. Yeah, we've got some, and sometimes a monster shows up, but the same kind of country you see in central/eastern AZ that is rolling hills and grasslands that has some decent herds of antelope pale in comparison to what you seen in the exact same country in neighboring states. It seems every time time drive to NM or CO, I know I've crossed the border when I start seeing antelope everywhere. It's the same country - but something is clearly different.

 

Anyone else notice the same thing?

[Flatlander]

I am no wildlife biologist but there are a few things I would attribute some of these differences to:

 

1. A lack of high elevation summer range with abundant high nutrient browse.

 

2. The number of predators. AZ does not have an aggressive predator management program and the mild winters do not create large scale kill offs that sometimes occur in colder climates.

 

3. Management. AZ has specific areas where they manage for quality and the vast majority of areas are utilized to appease the level of "opportunity" the department sees fit. I think our antelope populations are a good example of amazing for quality, not quantity, while maintaining opportunity. I think our habitat could definitely support bigger lope herds but it would require aggressive predator management and reduced tag numbers.

[Pine Donkey]

Habitat fragmentation must play a role in the weakening herds.

[elpepe25]

Habitat fragmentation must play a role in the weakening herds.

I believe that it is the single biggest factor in the mule deer nose dive.

[trphyhntr]

Habitat fragmentation must play a role in the weakening herds.

just flew in from idaho this past week when you fly over it i was think thats gotta play a role. and of course the water situation, not sure about our predator numbers compared to those states.

[firstcoueswas80]

Hard To Have Much Of A Herd And Big Bucks With Umpteen Thousand Tags PeR Year.

[Heat]

I agree with Casey. There is too much hunting pressure on too few deer. We are pushing the lower limits on the buck to doe ratios. Extended drought is also a huge factor. Predators have an impact but their populations are cyclical, and you would expect a rebound from the deer given good conditions. We have only had a few actual good years of rain in the last 14 years or so. That makes it awful tough on critters, especially the ones that live in this arid county like the Desert Mule Deer.

 

I can recall my DBS hunt in Region IV where that I saw literally hundreds of sheep and less than half a dozen deer total in the entire 4 or 5 months of scouting.
That my friends is pathetic!

[Guest wdenike]

The inability to put steel on the ground I believe was the down fall for both species. Ignorant politicians and a spineless game and fish are responsible. Sit back relax and watch the next lack of common sense from our gooberment agencies. It will be bought to us by none other than the MEXICAN GREY WOLF!! Just more ignorance and gooberment irresponsibility that we will all suffer from.

 

 

Take care, Willie

[jim]

Water, water, water when we used to get good winter rain the mule deer herds were awesome now that we sit around and wonder what rain looks like during the late winter months. This state just looks dry the browse looks nothing like it did 20 years ago. This state use to look somewhat green now everywhere you go outside of the monsoon season it just looks brown.

[4Falls]

I believe that human encroachment and drought are major factors. However the lack of any predator management will continue to decimate any herd growth. We have ridiculous fawn recruitment for those species. Look at the 3 Bar area near Roosevelt, the deer in the enclosure thrive, even with drought and a relatively small habitat. No predators in the enclosure.

[Coach]

Lots of valid points raised here. I spent today looking for Grouse up around Green's Peak. My brother-in-law and I walked miles up and down the hills and saw not a single grouse. The habitat is perfect for them, and I know they are there because he has taken a few this year.

 

I think this is key to my original question. When we have the habitat, the feed, in most cases a minor predator impact, why don't we have more success in recuperation of the species that could and should prosper here?

 

Clearly, it's somewhere between habitat and management - I'm leaning toward management. I think this state has the ability to host healthy coues, mule deer, elk, turkey, grouse, predators like fox and bobcat - and it does - no question about it, these are all things that hard working hunters can achieve. But they all can be managed better and made more abundant with some more insight into the way laws are written, quotas established, by the people who actually are out there day-to-day and really understand the land and the animals.

[creed_az_88]

Mule deer decline isn't just a problem in Arizona. Its a nationwide issue and in my opinion, is largely due to the growth of population from other species. Elk and whitetail in particular. Whitetail now thrive from coast to coast. Their populations are constantly on the rise. Even our little coues deer thrive in areas here in az that we never even considered them living ten years ago. Take central az for example. Have whitetail always been so abundant around Roosevelt? Now stories of elk occasionally drinking from the lake float around. Mule deer numbers dwindle and elk and coues/whitetail rise. Its visible nationwide. The problem isn't that they compete for food or that the state mismanaged them, its the fact that theyre the weaker prey animal. When a lion or coyote or wolf gets hungry it searches for prey. Because in many areas the predator now has more than one option, its going to hunt what's easiest, the mule deer. It will keep hunting mule deer and occasionally whatever else it comes across like elk or coues. The elk and whitetail serve as a second option on the menu to keep the predator nourished until it comes across another easy mule deer. Eventually when the predator has killed most of the mule deer in the area, it can then swap to the other species. Predators thrive in areas with multiple species. Now look at areas in the country where only mule deer live. The strip for example. The population is fine. Predators can only eat mule deer and if they run out of mule deer then they either die themselves or leave. When they die or leave the mule deer can then again start to thrive again. Populations will cycle because of predators in areas where only mule deer live but will not be decimated like they do in other areas like central az where predators can remain In one spot because of the food variety. I do not believe that state agencies giving out too many tags is the problem otherwise coues populations would be minimal in units 33 and 34a. Humans target bucks. Lions and coyotes target anything with a heartbeat, and it just so happens that mule deer and antelope are the easiest for them.