mule deer in southern az

[jeremiah lindsey]

What happend to all the mule deer in southern arizona units like 34b 34a 35a 35b was it the drought poaching over hunting predation ?

[elkhunter]

I say drought, those tanks in the smaller hills are not retaining the water it used to, I grew up smack dab in the middle of 34b and have pics of me on horses walking 4 ft deep into ponds for a drink in nov-dec, now those ponds are home dry by October, they did cut mule deer tags in some of those units, give Aaron miller an email and he can explain the decline to you

[justanotherpunk]

It's combination of all the things you listed and huge issues relate to undocumented immigration/drug trafficking. By the way keep it up border patrol. The job these men and women do is grossly underappreciated by far to many in this country! I'm also including human beings in the predation component of your query.

 

In my opinion however, all of these factos pale in comparison to the way the department has handled the archery hunting for years. Allowing an unrestricted number of hunters loose in a huge area (basically pick a unit and ever body pile in,) has been a major factor in the mule deer decline. Anyone that goes into these units during the late hunts can see the amount of pressure put on them during those times. There are hunters under every bush in mule deer habitat every weekend an heavy numbers of people during the regular week.

 

The department needs to change the system by which archery tags are issued. They need to restrict the number of tags issued to the individual units and make the tags species specific. I also believe that the department should require unsuccessful hunters turn in unused rifle or archery tags prior to the purchase of a second tag to combat the unscrupulous few who double take. The mandatory reporting currently in place is a hugely flawed system.

 

I know what I just had to just wrote will be hugely unpopular so I'll make sure to point out that there are to many rifle tags issued in these units also. I'm out there during the december and january archery hunts when i feel like it but I'm usually way more interested in waterfowl.

 

For all of those who are instantly going to jump on me for my opinion and are going to be completely dismissive of the points made. Pick a weapon and a unit and go out and enjoy chasing your quarry.

 

 

 

[johnnie blaze]

It's combination of all the things you listed and huge issues relate to undocumented immigration/drug trafficking. By the way keep it up border patrol. The job these men and women do is grossly underappreciated by far to many in this country! I'm also including human beings in the predation component of your query.

 

In my opinion however, all of these factos pale in comparison to the way the department has handled the archery hunting for years. Allowing an unrestricted number of hunters loose in a huge area (basically pick a unit and ever body pile in,) has been a major factor in the mule deer decline. Anyone that goes into these units during the late hunts can see the amount of pressure put on them during those times. There are hunters under every bush in mule deer habitat every weekend an heavy numbers of people during the regular week.

 

The department needs to change the system by which archery tags are issued. They need to restrict the number of tags issued to the individual units and make the tags species specific. I also believe that the department should require unsuccessful hunters turn in unused rifle or archery tags prior to the purchase of a second tag to combat the unscrupulous few who double take. The mandatory reporting currently in place is a hugely flawed system.

 

I know what I just had to just wrote will be hugely unpopular so I'll make sure to point out that there are to many rifle tags issued in these units also. I'm out there during the december and january archery hunts when i feel like it but I'm usually way more interested in waterfowl.

 

For all of those who are instantly going to jump on me for my opinion and are going to be completely dismissive of the points made. Pick a weapon and a unit and go out and enjoy chasing your quarry.

 

 

Not to mention the majority of rifle hunters hunting the roads and taking anything with nubs. I understand it's legal, but how can you have a healthy herd with most of the up in commers getting shot before their off mommas titty.

[az_shooter]

Don't forget about predators, coyotes do a number on fawn crop in these southern units. I grew up in 34b and have seen the decline throughout life. There are many factors that are the reason for the huge decline in these units and I think you guys have nailed a good number of them.

[muledeerarea33?]

I haven't really seen an issue with mulies the past 6 years or so I've lived down here. Lots of good bucks on camera, but never there when I hunt them haha. Whitetail however seem few and far between.

[elkhunter]

Keep in mind that when prey population declines then so does predator population, whitetail a are thriving in all the mulies units and according to scientific studies coues deer are more adapted to arid environments than desert mule deer mostly to surface area to volume ratio, i grew up in 34b and 35a for all my life and coues deer are exploding and mule deer are declining, it may also involve the cattle industry. Keep in mind that the rise and fall of populations occurs naturally wen when game and fish department are highly involved or not, for example- how many coues deer were in 6a 30 years ago compared to now? If coues population increased in 6a then no doubt mt lion and coyote and even bear population increased as well.

[elkhunter]

I might add that cattle industry provides additional food supply for the predators which allows them to grow higher than their natural rate as far as population growth goes, that is the primary problem with wolves farther north. As stated earlier this month under a wolf topic, cattle was determined as the main source of problem for natural way of wildlife

[AZLance]

Game and Fish has destroyed the deer herds in this state as they bow to the all mighty dollar...

[deerhunter]

Same way in unit 27. Hunter under every bush. Way to many tags being put issued every year. And true there are a bunch of double takers out there and no game and fish insight. I take that back we do see him every now and then when we are at camp, he is driving right behind the road hunters not to stop them just trying to get around them. As long as there is a money demand they will never cut the amount of tags out there or hire more game officers. O well it is what it is I guess.

[couesdeerhntr]

I am Actually pretty sure now you dont even have to call and report your archery deer harvest they just want you to fill out the survey they send everyone that has a tag. I am pretty sure it is in the regs just under the archery deer section

[couesdeerhntr]

Actually i just looked and it is in the legal requirments section under deer hunting

[couesdeerhntr]

But i see plenty of mule deer down there and i am seein mule deer in places i have never seen them before so in my book i feel they are doin pretty good and as for archery hunters double dipping i am sure that it does happen but it is far and few between. I would put the blame on that over just out right poaching bein the problem in those units

[JOEDKILLA]

I feel i have a unique perspective on this topic. I grew up hunting these units and have also experienced the decline. I'm also fortunate to hunt & manage property in Sonora Mex. , some that sits just south of 35A, 36B & C. Being bordelands, we experience much of the same issues in regards to human and drug trafficking. The drought did'nt stop at the border either. A thriving cattle industry also exists and no matter how many predators we shoot it never seems to be enough. Yet the mule deer populations are thriving! I see plenty of bucks in the 160-180 range, a few in the 190-210, & the ocasional 220+. The buck to doe ratio is as high as 1 to 2 in some places! Lets for one second pretend that the border does'nt exist, lets just call it our neighbors property to the south. The deer are from the same gene pool, the feed is the same, the weather is the same, and the predators are the same. So what is the biggest difference? Our neighbor to the south does'nt have a government agencie that issues(sells) 2 or 3 tags for every buck alive and counts on projected success rates as a management tool. Hunting pressure is still pressure succesful or not.

[az_shooter]

/> I feel i have a unique perspective on this topic. I grew up hunting these units and have also experienced the decline. I'm also fortunate to hunt & manage property in Sonora Mex. , some that sits just south of 35A, 36B & C. Being bordelands, we experience much of the same issues in regards to human and drug trafficking. The drought did'nt stop at the border either. A thriving cattle industry also exists and no matter how many predators we shoot it never seems to be enough. Yet the mule deer populations are thriving! I see plenty of bucks in the 160-180 range, a few in the 190-210, & the ocasional 220+. The buck to doe ratio is as high as 1 to 2 in some places! Lets for one second pretend that the border does'nt exist, lets just call it our neighbors property to the south. The deer are from the same gene pool, the feed is the same, the weather is the same, and the predators are the same. So what is the biggest difference? Our neighbor to the south does'nt have a government agencie that issues(sells) 2 or 3 tags for every buck alive and counts on projected success rates as a management tool. Hunting pressure is still pressure succesful or not.

Very true, hunting and hunting pressure plays a huge role in everything, probably the largest factor at that.