Unit 9 Arizona Elk Hunt Success Photos

[azborn2hunt]

That's a fair question Pixman. I really did have a great hunt(my buddy's tag) so that's why it struck me so much about Jay blaming the unit for having "extreme droughted" antler growth and not just owning his slump this year. As mentioned above, he has a rep to protect.

 

When does a person who simply has a different opinion have to 'show proof' before his opinion is considered? Even if I didn't have the experience I did, I would still know/believe that 'extreme' droughted antlers is an inaccurate summary of this years bulls. I know I am not 100% right but that's my opinion. I am absolutely certain that if I post pics of proof... it won't change anything and I will still be the bad newbie here who dare object to the great scott. (Dangit! Note to self: I have to cut-out the sarcasm cause it doesn't go over well here).

 

So forget I hunted the unit this year. Lets just say I spent approx. 30days driving the roads and walking the draws, all without a camera(just my eyeballs). Would you say I am not allowed to offer an opinion because I did not document my experience with pictures as proof. Pictures posted or not doesn't change 'reality' either way. But Pixman I appreciate the question and the way you put it.

 

I understand the whole "Home turf" thing and how we all (me too) seem to have this thing about discounting anyone who is not from here... or someone new here... or not a local. Its easy to bash that guy who seems to rub up against a local boy. Pics won't change a thing because it really was my tone that was listened to... I admit I was a lil edgy.

[cbryant11]

A 380 bull to some is a 330 bull to others, only pics will show us what group your bulls fall into

[Pixman]

That's a fair question Pixman. I really did have a great hunt(my buddy's tag) so that's why it struck me so much about Jay blaming the unit for having "extreme droughted" antler growth and not just owning his slump this year. As mentioned above, he has a rep to protect.

 

When does a person who simply has a different opinion have to 'show proof' before his opinion is considered? Even if I didn't have the experience I did, I would still know/believe that 'extreme' droughted antlers is an inaccurate summary of this years bulls. I know I am not 100% right but that's my opinion. I am absolutely certain that if I post pics of proof... it won't change anything and I will still be the bad newbie here who dare object to the great scott. (Dangit! Note to self: I have to cut-out the sarcasm cause it doesn't go over well here).

 

So forget I hunted the unit this year. Lets just say I spent approx. 30days driving the roads and walking the draws, all without a camera(just my eyeballs). Would you say I am not allowed to offer an opinion because I did not document my experience with pictures as proof. Pictures posted or not doesn't change 'reality' either way. But Pixman I appreciate the question and the way you put it.

 

I understand the whole "Home turf" thing and how we all (me too) seem to have this thing about discounting anyone who is not from here... or someone new here... or not a local. Its easy to bash that guy who seems to rub up against a local boy. Pics won't change a thing because it really was my tone that was listened to... I admit I was a lil edgy.

 

 

That is why I like this website so much because we are like a family and we stand up for each other when someone says harsh words to someone else. This isn't the first discussion that raised a few eyebrows and it won't be the last. We celebrate each others accomplishments and feel the pain of losses or unfilled tags. We say congrats when someone kills a spike not come down on someone because he didn't kill the biggest animal out there. This is the best website out there for that reason and we enjoy sharing and seeing each other stories and photos. So you being new and saying the things you did caused a little trouble and maybe we missed your sense of humor at times. We all love seeing pics of all different kinds of critters so I was hoping you would share with us and not just tell about what you saw. Take care and join this great big family known as CWT.com!

[azborn2hunt]

Pixman- nice message. You're a good person for sure. It was Jays excuses that caused me to jump-in with my experience is the area. But I made that choice I know.

 

Its just to bad a guy sank 5 to 6 THOUSAND dollars into expectations that Jay would find something close to what Jay has a reputation for. Then hear him blame the bad antler growth this year. His hunter could have saved that money... gone solo... and done as good or better on his own with money left over to take his wife on vacation. However the hunter is a local and chose not to put in some effort... but that's another discussion. They are the guys that guides feed on. Either don't care to give an effort OR to afraid to go solo in a trophy unit, in fear of not shooting a monster when all his friends expect it. Its OK to come home empty handed people.

 

For you out there that don't hunt unit 9, 10 3C etc... you have not seen the impact guides have on the quality of the hunt. Not always, but there's a good chance in those units you will encounter the negative effects of many guides... on water especially. So yes to someone earlier who said I just have a beef with Jay. Its to bad the youtube/blogging marketing machine is selling a 'product' that belongs to everyone. In this case "elk". Owned by you and I... he is snatching the best of the best bulls right from under our noses to turn a profit. WE CANT COMPETE for the same big bulls because he spends 'time' that we don't always have (30days scouting!) really! its frustrating... but what can u do. So yeah it feels good that I spent a ton and got a chance to help a friend kill a dandy and a 'profit margin' wasn't the reason I was there. "Just friends and family and no one killing our monsters out from under us for the money"... that's my daydream. Guiding is a new animal from what it was 15-20 yrs ago. So to those of you on teamJay, he will be back next year and probably doing just fine.... killing more toads, collecting more checks... and many of you cheering him on.

 

PIXMAN... I like your message. You're a nicer guy than I am.

[123456]

And there it is...... Jealousy!!! It all makes sense now.

[cbryant11]

Lets see your buddys dandy FREE bull

[azborn2hunt]

12345678 & cbyant1- To your short comments, We are on different sides of the fence that's all. You are 'pro' guiding. For me that means: guiding(for big dollars) on our public land, Using our property(public wildlife) as their only product to sell, while taking away from the working guy an exorbitantly high volume of our biggest bulls, making it harder and harder to find the shrinking population of 380+ monsters. "That reason" is more likely true than Jay's "extreme droughted antlers" as why he didn't find his client a reputation bull. I DO hunt those monsters exclusively. I have killed plenty of game in my life, and now I am willing to go home empty handed if necessary.

 

I do not want any new laws banning it ... I would love to see it fade away by peer pressure to-and-from fellow hunters. Causing a lack of enthusiasm to be leashed-up and lead around by a guide, for obvious reason.

Its just about changing hearts not laws.

 

No to your jealousy comment because I have done very well, BUT yes to great satisfaction that I kicked the blog-machine's asterisk. Remember the only reason I addressed Jay with a different opinion was because he made excuses for not finding his archery hunter a bull to match is rep. My experience was different. The tid-bit of taunting was just fun for me and yes, driven by my dissatisfaction of what guiding has become in the last 20 years. In all sports we taunt the competition. UofA fans will always taunt ASU fans, visa versa.

 

PEOPLE need to get it... we are in a competition here with the flood of guides. When we draw a coveted Unit 3C, 10, 9 or 8 tag, you instantly become COMPETITIVE to find that giant bull. And that too is the main thing guides are looking for(not the smaller bulls). Its not the quantity of elk they kill.. its the quantity of huge bulls they kill, and the pressure on water sources they create. You work hard, scout hard, keep your mouth shut when u find a great area so no one else can get the advantage over you. Its a chess match and Its all good!!!!! But when one group has an unfair advantage, we take notice. We can't compete with the countless DAYS and days that are spent through the summer, financed by someone else with a lack of desire to earn it(in most cases, not all). Then have them park signs on water holes to guard them. Guides 'back in the day' were low key and a non factor. Not-N-E-More! They are in your face and everywhere. They have change the landscape. If you hunt non-trophy areas then you probably have no idea what I'm talking about. Guides leave those areas alone because they are competing for that headline bull. Wake up. Look at the websites... you wont see units like 6A,6B, 5A a their specialties... They hunt 3C, 8, 10, etc. Big bulls only, that drive more paying customers. Its these customers that we need to reach. Its just an observation.

 

Don't change laws...just hearts. If their market isn't there because of lack-of-enthusiastic-buyers, then guides will reduce to historic and normal levels and start helping people who actually need help(very small number)

 

So maybe you're right 1234 - I am jealous they are taking from us by selling our elk... with an extreme (unfair) pressure on the monsters. I have the money to hire a guide if I chose to. Its just so far from my heart to even consider. Just an opinion, and I know many with the same... and hoping more will soon agree.

 

Who's the newbie? I have grown up in Arizona. I have seen and felt the effects of this new phenomena .

[muledeerarea33?]

Jealous, not jealous. Guides bein A-holes, or not, drought or no drought, rule change or not. Better grass, crappy grass. I'm not really concerned and don't take sides either way. I just wanna see the animals taken!! I've been putting in for elk 15++ years, when i get drawn, i can't afford a guide (I think I can't?) i'd rather have a DIY hunt but I won't be sad if a guide beats me to my spot. They obviously get paid to do a job, like the rest of us. Their job just happens to be alot more fun than what I get paid to do. I understand about being out and not having a camera, the only camera I own is on my phone, and it's not great. But if you have any pictures at all it'd be nice to see them. I've never killed an elk but have been onenty of hunts, how bout some eye candy?

[cbryant11]

I think people that cant afford guided hunts kill just as many big animsls as guided hunters, i just love aeeing big bulls paid for or not,

[Jay Scott]

Guys-

I just got in from out of town but was overwhelmed with the PM's and emails on this post. AZBorn and I obviously see things differently on the subject of this years season. Actually, I think I am paying him even more of a compliment by saying again that I am glad that he helped his friend get a great bull in Unit 9 this year! In my opinion, their accomplishment is even better on a year like we have had. I have spoken and received messages from many guides, hunters and sportsman on their opinion of antler growth in Units 9 and 10. I have not talked to one person that thinks the antlers were normal this year. All have expressed their opinion that it was well below normal. The reality is it doesn't really matter at this point. Excuse or not, some years you get a big one and some years you don't. I respect AZborn's opinion as a member of this site even though I don't agree with some of his views. This site has always seemed to be different from the others and that is why we chose to be a sponsor.

 

I am happy to be a member and sponsor of this site. I actually completely disagree with AZBorn's opinion of guides in this state. I have found most hunters and guides in this state are very respectful to other hunters in the field. Quite honestly my experience in most all cases is that most guides in this state are very professional and a class act.

 

I really don't want to degrade this site with trivial stuff. I am happy to discuss all aspects of the hunt with anyone at anytime. My performance as a guide and hunter will always be subject to critical judgements and that is ok. When its all said and done I think I can be proud of my efforts. Give AZBorn a break because he is a fellow hunter who just has a different opinion on a few issues. Lets move on. Its time to keep scouting and find some great sheep and coues bucks for this upcoming season.

 

Sincere Congrats to AZBorn and others who harvested giant bulls this season in Unit 9 and 10!

[tjhunt2]

You are a first class act Jay Scott. It's guys like you that make this site what it is. The best!

 

TJ

[azborn2hunt]

Jay I sincerely respect you and your skills 'as a hunter' too. You and I have something a lot of people don't have... Time. Whatever motivates you and I to devote 'time' to hunting may or may not be different. We are no better than anyone else in that aspect. If we give time to anything in life, we tend to get good at it. I have a friend who continued playing racquetball after high school on thru life. He loves it... and now when I play him on occasion, it amazes me how good he is as he destroys me. He devoted time to it, that's all.

 

My hat is off to you as a person for what you have accomplished with elk hunting. I personally don't like that you decided to start guiding a few relatively short years ago, because now you are impacting the wildlife (and me) in an ever increasing way. Just my respectful opinion.

 

Your only response to me about guiding was to address 'guide behavior." That to me really is a very small part of what I want to communicate. Guides can and are nice guys too (I agree with you). I have had issues with their behavior (even this year) BUT the real issue is the main point I made about guides running a biz on 'public' land with public wildlife as their product for sale. I have observed a downward-trending effect of the quantity of truly large bulls in our trophy units. Extreme high pressure on these animals by guides has a large impact. My opinion.

 

There is a ton more that can be injected into that debate from both sides of the fence... and its a fair discussion to have. Does anyone on this site agree at some level?

[ThomC]

I agree at some level. But, there is always a but. I agree that guides create more pressure on the game. I would add that unpaid guides such friends helping also is on the increase. More pressure on the herd is also a result of Game & Fish putting as many tags as possible. And the weather also effects the herd in many ways.

 

The hunt for horns is a huge problem IMHO with people willing to do almost anything to have the largest. Someday maybe we will have two tags for each animal. One for the horns and one for the meat. How about one hunter gets the "main beam" one gets the "fourths" one gets the "fifths" etc. LOL This is NOT HUNTING. IMHO of course.

 

As far as the posts, it sounds just like two bulls screaming at each other with a few smaller ones added because they want the rut to continue and they still have testerone to burn.

[trphyhntr]

Pixman- nice message. You're a good person for sure. It was Jays excuses that caused me to jump-in with my experience is the area. But I made that choice I know.

 

Its just to bad a guy sank 5 to 6 THOUSAND dollars into expectations that Jay would find something close to what Jay has a reputation for. Then hear him blame the bad antler growth this year. His hunter could have saved that money... gone solo... and done as good or better on his own with money left over to take his wife on vacation. However the hunter is a local and chose not to put in some effort... but that's another discussion. They are the guys that guides feed on. Either don't care to give an effort OR to afraid to go solo in a trophy unit, in fear of not shooting a monster when all his friends expect it. Its OK to come home empty handed people.

 

For you out there that don't hunt unit 9, 10 3C etc... you have not seen the impact guides have on the quality of the hunt. Not always, but there's a good chance in those units you will encounter the negative effects of many guides... on water especially. So yes to someone earlier who said I just have a beef with Jay. Its to bad the youtube/blogging marketing machine is selling a 'product' that belongs to everyone. In this case "elk". Owned by you and I... he is snatching the best of the best bulls right from under our noses to turn a profit. WE CANT COMPETE for the same big bulls because he spends 'time' that we don't always have (30days scouting!) really! its frustrating... but what can u do. So yeah it feels good that I spent a ton and got a chance to help a friend kill a dandy and a 'profit margin' wasn't the reason I was there. "Just friends and family and no one killing our monsters out from under us for the money"... that's my daydream. Guiding is a new animal from what it was 15-20 yrs ago. So to those of you on teamJay, he will be back next year and probably doing just fine.... killing more toads, collecting more checks... and many of you cheering him on.

 

PIXMAN... I like your message. You're a nicer guy than I am.

do you have a picture of Jay above your bed? youre infatuated with him.

[8OWHUNT247]

Pixman- nice message. You're a good person for sure. It was Jays excuses that caused me to jump-in with my experience is the area. But I made that choice I know.

 

Its just to bad a guy sank 5 to 6 THOUSAND dollars into expectations that Jay would find something close to what Jay has a reputation for. Then hear him blame the bad antler growth this year. His hunter could have saved that money... gone solo... and done as good or better on his own with money left over to take his wife on vacation. However the hunter is a local and chose not to put in some effort... but that's another discussion. They are the guys that guides feed on. Either don't care to give an effort OR to afraid to go solo in a trophy unit, in fear of not shooting a monster when all his friends expect it. Its OK to come home empty handed people.

 

For you out there that don't hunt unit 9, 10 3C etc... you have not seen the impact guides have on the quality of the hunt. Not always, but there's a good chance in those units you will encounter the negative effects of many guides... on water especially. So yes to someone earlier who said I just have a beef with Jay. Its to bad the youtube/blogging marketing machine is selling a 'product' that belongs to everyone. In this case "elk". Owned by you and I... he is snatching the best of the best bulls right from under our noses to turn a profit. WE CANT COMPETE for the same big bulls because he spends 'time' that we don't always have (30days scouting!) really! its frustrating... but what can u do. So yeah it feels good that I spent a ton and got a chance to help a friend kill a dandy and a 'profit margin' wasn't the reason I was there. "Just friends and family and no one killing our monsters out from under us for the money"... that's my daydream. Guiding is a new animal from what it was 15-20 yrs ago. So to those of you on teamJay, he will be back next year and probably doing just fine.... killing more toads, collecting more checks... and many of you cheering him on.

 

PIXMAN... I like your message. You're a nicer guy than I am.

do you have a picture of Jay above your bed? youre infatuated with him.

++++1 ...... 13 Posts and they all have to do with Jay!! LOL