What impact do Bears have?

[hime]

I've been out scouting several weekends now and have seen a bear, maybe different bears, in a small amount of country that I've wanted to hunt. I have seen a couple deer, but no bucks in that certain area. Several years ago I saw four or five nice bucks in the same area, but no bears. Does anybody have an idea how a bear or bears will affect deer? Will they move out of the area, several canyons over, while the bear is there? Will they stay around, move up, down, or one canyon over? Any help would be appreciated?

 

Thanks,

 

JDH

[peloncillo]

I don't think it would affect the deer as I have seen them both in the same areas before but I really don't know for sure.

 

Keven

[SilentButDeadly]

I've heard that black bears have a major impact on Yellowstone Elk populations:

 

http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/bears_elk_research.html

 

A quick google search revealed these links to Eastern Whitetail / Black Bear studies, I see no reason why it would be different for Coue's.

 

http://www.aginfo.psu.edu/news/december01/fawn.html

 

http://www.bearstudy.org/Research/Publicat...20Minnesota.pdf

[DesertBull]

I don't think they effect adult deer, but I believe they eat thier fair share of new borns.

[Rembrant]

Couple years ago had a late tag and were watching 12 to 20 whitetails a day from the same spot for two weeks. There were 2 days where a really big bear showed up on the same slope and munched cedar berries. On one occasion the bear exited across one bench where some does and fawns were hanging out. The deer were very aware of the bruin and made a wide circle around him and then slowly left the area. Other than that there was no change in any deer behavior. I would say, "out of sight, out of mind."

Mike

[TAM]

Several years ago in unit 31 on an October coues hunt I was glassing a canyon where we had seen quite a few deer including a big non typical buck before the hunt. About an hour before dark I had yet to see a deer when I caught movement of a good sized bear working it's way down the canyon. Even at a great distance I could hear the bear as it worked it's way down. It made a very noisy approach tumbling rocks, and stomping through dry crackling brush, cracking branches, etc. Once at the bottom of the canyon it climbed into a large juniper and proceeded to feed on berries until dark. At this point the bear was only about 400 yards away and made all kinds of racket as he climbed the tree, broke big branches, and just made a lot of noise! The same bear came in the next morning, and then again the next evening. I saw one spike buck in that canyon during those two days I was there.

 

My point is that bear are often times noisy creatures. Regardless of wether or not they pose any threat to the deer, I just don't think that deer like to be in the same areas where there is a lot of noise and commotion going on. I think coues deer like quiet areas away from anything that will create any disturbance.

[hime]

Thanks for all the replies. You guys have helped to confirm what I was thinking. Good luck to everyone hunting this weekend.

 

JDH

[the breeze]

They will come hard to a fawn bleat so imo the result wouldn't be very good.

[azpackhorse]

Many moons ago when I first moved to Arizona and was new to Coues hunting I had drawn a tag down in the Santa Ritas. I had made my way up to a saddle that looked like a natural funnel route from bedding and feeding areas. I was sitting up on a large boulder when I heard what sounded like to me a hawk or some kind of bird screeching, I searched the sky and trees but couldn't find anything then I heard it again much closer and was able to pinpoint the sound. It was a small Coues buck and when he screamed his mouth came wide open, he was very focused on a steep draw in front of me. I sat and watched as a small cinnamon bear came ambling out of the draw, the buck let him get about 50yds away then would run ahead a little and scream at him. The bear payed absolutely no attention to the buck.

I think that for the most part mature deer don't worry too much about bears and won't vacate the area but the fawns definately would be food for them.

Last year we seen two lions walk across a hillside that had deer on it before and after they were there.

It seems that coyotes pose a bigger threat to deer than bears, deer get really upset when a coyote is near them.

[deernut]

I don't know if it is appropriate to post a large piece like this, but it is related to this topic. This is an article I published in the NRA's Hunter Magazine in about 2001.

 

Jim Heffelfinger

http://www.deernut.com

 

Stalking Bears and Vice Versa

On a warm August afternoon I was hiking in the beautiful Chiricahua Mountains along the borders with Mexico and New Mexico. During this particular trip I was accompanied by retired wildlife researcher Jerry Day and we were looking for deer/vegetation research plots located back in the rugged canyons of this mountain range. Jerry had not visited these research plots in the 40 years since he completed his research on the relationships between high deer populations and important forage plants. After a few hours of trying to keep up with my 70-year-old companion, we located the most inaccessible study plot and sat to rest. Jerry remarked that the hills had become steeper in the intervening years - either by perception or recent geologic activity.

 

Not long into our rest, we heard the bleating distress call of a Coues white-tailed deer fawn across the canyon. After a short search with binoculars, we located the fawn but only by the wild flapping wings of the hungry golden eagle which was attached, via sharp talons, to its back. The fawn was trying to seek cover in the scattered oak brush but the eagle's flapping wings slowed his progress. As we watched this remarkable scene, it was obvious the eagle would make quick work of the fawn and we would witness an event few people have the opportunity to see. Suddenly, the large bird of prey flew away and we wondered what would make this eagle abandon such a sure meal.

 

We did not wonder long, for the eagle was almost immediately replaced by a young black bear who had come running to the sound of the fawn's distress. The fawn had hid amongst the brush and the bear simply waited for some direction. It soon came with a loud bleat from the nearly scrub oak. The bear charged immediately for the sound; there was no question what he was there for. After a few minutes of cat and mouse, or rather bear and fawn, the fawn succumbed to the inevitable and the bear slept well with a full stomach that night.

 

A month later the bear season in that mountain range opened. I was confident because I knew there was a bear in that area that associated the sound of a fawn with a dinner bell. The opening weekend of bear season I went back into the same area where I saw the bear kill the fawn. After teaching a wildlife class at the University of Arizona, I left Tucson Friday evening and arrived at the end of the road in the Chiricahua Mountains at midnight. I parked my truck and strapped on my backpack already loaded with all the gear I thought I’d need to bring back a bear. I headed into the mountains by moonlight and set up a camp 1 mile from the nearest road, high on a ridge top.

 

 

Saturday morning I left camp and hiked along the ridge, stopping at intervals to set up and call like a fawn in distress with a predator call. I was fully camouflaged and my fawn imitation was apparently right on the mark, because a few white-tailed does walked up to within 10 yards of me looking very agitated and making the soft buzzing noise they use to locate their fawns at close range.

 

At noon, I sat under an oak tree at the end of the ridge to eat lunch and shortly after sitting down I saw a bear look at me from behind a clump of tall grass from a mere 6 yards away. I was stunned at this unexpected, although not uninvited, lunch guest. He immediately saw his error (or my rifle) and backed up quickly. I sat in disbelief for a second and tried to recount what I ate and if it could cause such hallucinations. I stood up with my rifle and the bear was still standing 10 yards away looking at me. I realized then that he was a very small yearling so I lowered my rifle and he scampered down the slope.

 

Mid-afternoon that day, I was calling from the next high ridge overlooking a large canyon and saw a bear one-half mile down canyon swimming across a small pond. At that distance, I was not sure if he heard my calling or if I happened to spy him before he was within hearing range. He stopped on the near side of the pond and shook off. I screamed like a fawn with the call and he immediately broke into a run at full speed towards me! It took a while for him to cover all that ground so I kept calling to keep him on track. Bears really look much larger when you are on the ground and they are running full speed at you -- you start to wonder if even your high-powered rifle is enough for this sudden incarnation of Nature's wrath. As he approached I stopped calling because I didn’t care for him to know my exact location. When he closed the distance to 25 yards, I dropped him in his tracks (that's close enough, thank you).

 

I quickly went to work skinning the beast where he lay. There were no trees of suitable size to hang him within the distance I could drag him alone. I first skinned back the hide on one side and boned all meat off that side, and then repeated the procedure on the other side. After the outside meat was boned, the animal was dressed to retrieve the tenderloins. Since it would take more than one trip to get meat, hide, and camp gear out to the truck, all meat was placed into cheesecloth meat bags and secured high in an oak tree 100 yards away. The head and hide were strapped to the daypack and brought back to my ridge top camp. The camp was hastily disassembled and repacked onto the pack frame and then the bear head and hide was added and tied down securely.

 

 

I packed (staggered) the head/hide and camp gear out that night (1 mile of very rugged terrain), slept in my truck through a terrible storm. The next morning I left the truck at first light with an empty pack frame and full canteen, heading back to my secluded cache of meat hung high in the oak tree. The cool rain during the night kept the meat chilled. I was thankful for that rain but not the torrential downpour that hammered me when I was halfway out of the mountains with the meat on my back. I took one of those shortcuts that are never shorter, thinking I could cut right over the last ridge instead of contouring around. The backside of the ridge was almost too steep to negotiate with my meat-laden pack and consisted of a field of jumbled granite. I could hardly walk with the rain pelting me hard, but the sharp crackle of the lightning so close to my packframe helped quicken my pace off the ridge top.

 

Besides a freezer full of meat and a beautiful rug, I also came home with chigger bites, sunburn, a twisted ankle, blisters on hands and feet, bruised knee, and aches in muscles I didn't even know I had. My fellow biologists said they had never seen a deer biologist go through so much trouble to avenge the loss of one fawn.

[More D]

Excellent story!

 

 

[davecinaz]

Thanks for sharing - what a great story to stir up old memories!