Santa Catalina Bighorn Restoration Project

[reganranch]

What's the overall death total,3 or 4 now? Where are all the die hard supporters that fully supported the Research & Development(or lack of) that G&F conducted in order to make this happen? The mutton steak fry as kicked off to a great start so far.

[AZLance]

Classic...

 

http://www.kvoa.com/news/two-mountain-lions-killed-after-big-horn-sheep-found-dead/

[AZLance]

What will game and fish do if they find a Jaguar eating the sheep?

[johnnie blaze]

So typical AZGFD

[mklong40]

I posted earlier on this thread when it was first started, skeptical of the success of this program. I do not claim to know 1% of what a AZGF biologist knows about game management. However, I hunt, hike, camp, observe, etc. every week. The catalinas are my backyard and there is a reason the sheep have never sustained reintroduction in the area....not entirely sure myself but lions had to be high on the list of obvious. Someone posted a graph on this thread earlier that seemed to be the tale of the tape for me. Since the 60's every attempt at reintroduction has failed. I would love to see the sheep survive and reproduce...I just dont see it. The part thats frustrating to me is the money spent. I could think of better ways ( I know its all a matter of oppinion ) where funds could have gone....for example, raising money to salvage Arivaca Lake for tons of reasons seems like a better use of raised funds for AZGF.

[trphyhntr]

does our g and f really believe their own b.s.? seems like they screw up an awful lot.

[decon]

I posted earlier on this thread when it was first started, skeptical of the success of this program. I do not claim to know 1% of what a AZGF biologist knows about game management. However, I hunt, hike, camp, observe, etc. every week. The catalinas are my backyard and there is a reason the sheep have never sustained reintroduction in the area....not entirely sure myself but lions had to be high on the list of obvious. Someone posted a graph on this thread earlier that seemed to be the tale of the tape for me. Since the 60's every attempt at reintroduction has failed. I would love to see the sheep survive and reproduce...I just dont see it. The part thats frustrating to me is the money spent. I could think of better ways ( I know its all a matter of oppinion ) where funds could have gone....for example, raising money to salvage Arivaca Lake for tons of reasons seems like a better use of raised funds for AZGF.

 

You should get better informed about your "backyard". This is the first ever transplant of bighorn sheep into the Santa Catalinas. Losses to lions were expected and predicted. The source sheep for this transplant came from populations where lions are not common and therefore the sheep are likely naive about lions, it will take them a while to figure out the new predator and their new surroundings. Not sure what you mean about transplant failures since the 60's but I can think of at least 15 mountain ranges that have healthy sheep populations as the result of transplants. I'm disappointed so many people are throwing in the towel on this after 2 weeks.

[coatimundi01]

As far as the lions go, maybe they'll implement the multiple lion bag limit of 3/year like they have down in the SW units.

[AZLance]

. I'm disappointed so many people are throwing in the towel on this after 2 weeks.

You are disappointed??? I bet the 3 dead sheep are even more disappointed....

[mklong40]

I posted earlier on this thread when it was first started, skeptical of the success of this program. I do not claim to know 1% of what a AZGF biologist knows about game management. However, I hunt, hike, camp, observe, etc. every week. The catalinas are my backyard and there is a reason the sheep have never sustained reintroduction in the area....not entirely sure myself but lions had to be high on the list of obvious. Someone posted a graph on this thread earlier that seemed to be the tale of the tape for me. Since the 60's every attempt at reintroduction has failed. I would love to see the sheep survive and reproduce...I just dont see it. The part thats frustrating to me is the money spent. I could think of better ways ( I know its all a matter of oppinion ) where funds could have gone....for example, raising money to salvage Arivaca Lake for tons of reasons seems like a better use of raised funds for AZGF.

 

You should get better informed about your "backyard". This is the first ever transplant of bighorn sheep into the Santa Catalinas. Losses to lions were expected and predicted. The source sheep for this transplant came from populations where lions are not common and therefore the sheep are likely naive about lions, it will take them a while to figure out the new predator and their new surroundings. Not sure what you mean about transplant failures since the 60's but I can think of at least 15 mountain ranges that have healthy sheep populations as the result of transplants. I'm disappointed so many people are throwing in the towel on this after 2 weeks.

Hey Decon, I was referrencing the helicopter surveys posted on page one by the GF....check it out to familiarize yourself with it. It looks like the hearbeat of the ram who tried to give mr. lion a high five last weekend behind El Conquistador beacuse he didnt know insinctually it is a predator!

[Old Buck]

Desert sheep were released at the Mule Shoe Ranch and Redfield Canyon in the Galiuro Mountains in November of 1981. The mortality by lions was significant over the first few months and then declined. This population has had its ups and downs, but has persisted for 32 years and has provided some hunting opportunity. I hope that we see the same with the Catalina release.

[Coues Kid]

/>I posted earlier on this thread when it was first started, skeptical of the success of this program. I do not claim to know 1% of what a AZGF biologist knows about game management. However, I hunt, hike, camp, observe, etc. every week. The catalinas are my backyard and there is a reason the sheep have never sustained reintroduction in the area....not entirely sure myself but lions had to be high on the list of obvious. Someone posted a graph on this thread earlier that seemed to be the tale of the tape for me. Since the 60's every attempt at reintroduction has failed. I would love to see the sheep survive and reproduce...I just dont see it. The part thats frustrating to me is the money spent. I could think of better ways ( I know its all a matter of oppinion ) where funds could have gone....for example, raising money to salvage Arivaca Lake for tons of reasons seems like a better use of raised funds for AZGF.

I would much rather have seen them work on arivaca than throw money away.

[hunter4life]

I still think the transplant can be successful. Just look at NM and the results of targeting lions in areas where the bighorns were having problems. I think that lions are often incorrectly blamed for low prey (deer, elk, bighorn, etc.) numbers, but in certain instances such as a new transplant of bighorns or very low numbers then targeting predators in that area can make a difference. Here is a link to the NM data.

 

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/conservation/bighorn/documents/lions.htm

[ThomC]

/> I posted earlier on this thread when it was first started, skeptical of the success of this program. I do not claim to know 1% of what a AZGF biologist knows about game management. However, I hunt, hike, camp, observe, etc. every week. The catalinas are my backyard and there is a reason the sheep have never sustained reintroduction in the area....not entirely sure myself but lions had to be high on the list of obvious. Someone posted a graph on this thread earlier that seemed to be the tale of the tape for me. Since the 60's every attempt at reintroduction has failed. I would love to see the sheep survive and reproduce...I just dont see it. The part thats frustrating to me is the money spent. I could think of better ways ( I know its all a matter of oppinion ) where funds could have gone....for example, raising money to salvage Arivaca Lake for tons of reasons seems like a better use of raised funds for AZGF.

I would much rather have seen them work on arivaca than throw money away.

 

You want sheep in Arivaca? LOL Arivaca is getting renuvated, new boat ramp etc. Then you can pray for rain.

[audsley]

Whoever said every transplant since the 1960s has failed doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. There are numerous examples of successful sheep transplants that have resulted in thriving herds today. The Superstitions, Peloncillos, Galiuros and Mazatzals are prime examples. The big difference here is were next to an urban population with an activist, AGFD-hating, liberal press that enjoys inciting the clueless mob to a frenzy, and an urban population that understands little about wildlife and is easily misled by a few rabblerousers.

 

I salute Game & Fish for standing strong and continuing to do the right thing. Arizona sportsmen should be standing behind them and speaking up.

 

I do happen to share an interest in fixing southern Arizona's lakes, but that's another thread whenever someone gets inspired to start it.