Santa Catalina Bighorn Restoration Project

[Jcubed]

/>

 

Hey Ben,

I think you should take note of the nay sayers and if this transplant holds and we eventually get to hunt the Catalina's for sheep again, don't let those guys apply! Obviously some of you haven't been around the sheep units and watched the sheep much. In arivaipa they hang out right above the road and houses, they hang out in the silver bell mines all day long, they are all over the superstitions where people hike, four wheel, target shoot, and some are right up to the edge of town. I think some of you underestimate the size of the Catalina's and the chance is worth the risk. I think the main concern is when the sheep are initially released. It's going to take some time for them to adjust and G and F doesn't want extra pressure before they get settled in. As far as lions go you can't tell me that 31,32,22,24b, or just about any sheep unit doesn't have the same lion issue! Come on guys! Like I said if it takes hold and a new sheep hunt opens, better not see you applying for it!!!

Devin, we already know how corrupt our department already is, and your now suggesting that they start a black list for anybody who criticizes them? This will go over great with the hunters in AZ...

Wow, just wow.

 

Big thanks to the wildlife manager for coming and posting. I for one always appreciate that kind of input.

[tscott]

/>

 

Hey Ben,

I think you should take note of the nay sayers and if this transplant holds and we eventually get to hunt the Catalina's for sheep again, don't let those guys apply! Obviously some of you haven't been around the sheep units and watched the sheep much. In arivaipa they hang out right above the road and houses, they hang out in the silver bell mines all day long, they are all over the superstitions where people hike, four wheel, target shoot, and some are right up to the edge of town. I think some of you underestimate the size of the Catalina's and the chance is worth the risk. I think the main concern is when the sheep are initially released. It's going to take some time for them to adjust and G and F doesn't want extra pressure before they get settled in. As far as lions go you can't tell me that 31,32,22,24b, or just about any sheep unit doesn't have the same lion issue! Come on guys! Like I said if it takes hold and a new sheep hunt opens, better not see you applying for it!!!

Devin, we already know how corrupt our department already is, and your now suggesting that they start a black list for anybody who criticizes them? This will go over great with the hunters in AZ...

Wow, just wow.

 

Big thanks to the wildlife manager for coming and posting. I for one always appreciate that kind of input.

[tscott]

WM U 37B you're doing the right thing. Keep up the good work.

[Becker]

/>

 

 

 

Hey Ben,

I think you should take note of the nay sayers and if this transplant holds and we eventually get to hunt the Catalina's for sheep again, don't let those guys apply! Obviously some of you haven't been around the sheep units and watched the sheep much. In arivaipa they hang out right above the road and houses, they hang out in the silver bell mines all day long, they are all over the superstitions where people hike, four wheel, target shoot, and some are right up to the edge of town. I think some of you underestimate the size of the Catalina's and the chance is worth the risk. I think the main concern is when the sheep are initially released. It's going to take some time for them to adjust and G and F doesn't want extra pressure before they get settled in. As far as lions go you can't tell me that 31,32,22,24b, or just about any sheep unit doesn't have the same lion issue! Come on guys! Like I said if it takes hold and a new sheep hunt opens, better not see you applying for it!!!

Devin, we already know how corrupt our department already is, and your now suggesting that they start a black list for anybody who criticizes them? This will go over great with the hunters in AZ...

HAHAHA Nice, just saying IF it works bet everyone who poopoos it will apply when there's 180s on the catalinas

[Swivelhead]

Sheep on the mountain makes for a better mountain!

[GreeneMachine]

My two cents: it would be cool to see sheep on the mountain.

 

What I find funny: growing up in Tucson and hearing all the sheep lovers blame the animals demise on the parking lot lights at El Conquistador and other urban growth, but now the sheep lovers think the same growth won't impact the sheep?!? That is until 5 sheep survive past the first year...and then it's urban growths fault again.

 

Someone already stated this, but why not transplant to a different range? Have to believe its because the catalinas make much better PR then some other range the average joe has never heard of and couldn't care less if transplanted sheep, wolves or chupacabra make the news.

[JACK]

I'm just glad conservationist, the founding members of the sheep society...heck all the critter groups for that matter...didn't have the attitude of "it's a waste of time and money..."

[jim]

If housing areas make sheep leave how come there are so many sheep that live in boulder, nev?

[My Rights As An American]

Thank you to the following:

 

CMC for bringing this issue up for all to discuss and volunteer if they believe in the project.

 

Ben for coming on here and bringing excellent facts and insight. A brilliant and astute theory on why the herd declined beginning in 1986. Amazing how a single incident from one ram could be blamed as a major contributor for the entire wipe out of that herd. May not have been the only factor, but a major factor nonetheless.

 

Everyone for all of the opinions expressed pro and con for this project.

 

 

I can see both sides of the issue. In an effort to ensure future success, if the project were to progress, it is absolutely imperative that the science and research be whole and accurate to ensure success or study the failure. In my opinion, if the science is quality and the possibility exists to reintroduce this incredible herd species back to this area, I am all for it.

 

As a hunter and taxpayer, I believe it is our absolute responsibility to shepherd projects that ensure our future access to a more balanced ecosystem that allows us to be part of the ecosystem and harvest animals but also replenish them through good quality healthy ecosystem management. There are so many success stories that we need to consider: whitetailed deer were almost wiped out but have rebounded through sound management; goulds turkey; merriams turkey; elk (all subspecies); bison; eagles; etc. However, for every success story lies a failure, and if we have not learned why the failure existed, we are doomed to repeat it again at much cost and effort.

 

As hunters, we must be good stewards of the land its resources. If done properly, the success stories can be almost too good to be true. The big question in this case, will it be done properly? What caused the failure in the first place? Does the science support this reason? What will be done to prevent the reason for the failure from occuring again? These are the questions that must be answered prior to the expense and effort of reintroduction.

 

A successful reintroduction will lead to increased hunter opportunity, increased population size for future transplant and herd growth (read: more hunter opportunity again!), public enjoyment of the resource (my kids would get to see bighorn sheep roaming the range again), etc. A failed reintroduction will always lead to an "I told you so!!!".

[WM U37B]

Thanks Folks!

 

GreenMachine - For the sake of discussion, what other ranges are you suggesting?

 

I can tell you that in 2000, there was a statewide evaluation of all bighorn habitat in Arizona. In the Tucson Region, all of the ranges were scored and the Peloncillos (28) scored highest with 48 out of a possible 63 points. There was a 3-way tie for second place with a score of 47. These ranges were Aravaipa Canyon (31/32), the Catalina/Pusch Ridge complex (33), and the Mineral Mountains (N37B). There are currently sheep in all of these ranges due to translocations except for the Catalinas.

 

Here's some interesting history of bighorn in the Catalinas

1884-94 Common in the Catalinas and were a common food source in Tucson markets

1928 USFS records suggest 220 sheep in the Catalinas

1936 Coronado NF – visual count of 23 rams, 48 ewes, and 12 lambs – 83 total

1937 71 sheep were known to exist in the Catalinas

1962 Formal AGFD surveys began following John Russo’s study which initiated bighorn management and hunting programs as we know it.

 

Thanks again,

Ben Brochu

520-591-7636

bbrochu@azgfd.gov

[synper100]

Very well written Ben. Nice to know intelligent biologists are on the ground floor of this project. I just hope Martin and not the other guy{J.M.} are the leaders of this project. We need people who are p.r. people and know how to treat hunters and the general public with respect. I truly hope this project is successfull.

[ylclaret]

What about Newman peak and the picachos? I have heard of several bighorn sightings around there but haven't heard of an actual resident herd. Is there one already or are the sheep that have been spotted there just passing through?

[GreeneMachine]

Thanks Folks!

 

GreenMachine - For the sake of discussion, what other ranges are you suggesting?

 

I can tell you that in 2000, there was a statewide evaluation of all bighorn habitat in Arizona. In the Tucson Region, all of the ranges were scored and the Peloncillos (28) scored highest with 48 out of a possible 63 points. There was a 3-way tie for second place with a score of 47. These ranges were Aravaipa Canyon (31/32), the Catalina/Pusch Ridge complex (33), and the Mineral Mountains (N37B). There are currently sheep in all of these ranges due to translocations except for the Catalinas.

 

Here's some interesting history of bighorn in the Catalinas

1884-94 Common in the Catalinas and were a common food source in Tucson markets

1928 USFS records suggest 220 sheep in the Catalinas

1936 Coronado NF – visual count of 23 rams, 48 ewes, and 12 lambs – 83 total

1937 71 sheep were known to exist in the Catalinas

1962 Formal AGFD surveys began following John Russo’s study which initiated bighorn management and hunting programs as we know it.

 

Thanks again,

Ben Brochu

520-591-7636

bbrochu@azgfd.gov

What about the Galiuro's? I'm sure you know far more on this topic than anyone putting their two cents in. I'm surely no expert (heck, I didn't even know the name of Galiuro's until a few weeks ago). And I give you and any group credit for being willing to fight this battle because it's going to be battle. I haven't lived in AZ for over a decade now yet I've heard conversation about this transplant numerous times over the past year. But when I did live in AZ and worked at the El Conq during my college years, I can't tell you how many times a day I had to listen to everyone's opinion about the mythical sheep at Pusch Ridge while driving them past the bronze sheep statue out front of the hotel.

 

If the Catalina's are the only range that will support the sheep, then you would know that better than the rest of us. But it sure will be a shame if the transplant has a negative effect on access/use by hunters/hikers/recreationalists. While that may not be in the plans now, we all know how these sensitive topics with a lot of press and big $'s can end up when certain tree hugging groups dig their claws in. Just my opinion, continued access and use by all these groups is far more important than the presence of a sheep population on the ridge. I love seeing wildlife and that's right up there with the top reasons why I hunt. But when a lot of money gets spent to preserve a few at the expense of many, that's no bueno.

 

Hope this project works out good for everyone!...(and I think I'll just shut my mouth now cause I don't know nearly enough about this topic to have written two full paragraphs!!)

[audsley]

There are already more than 100 sheep in the Galiuros.

[sidwynder505]

There are already more than 100 sheep in the Galiuros.

i would not say a 100 in Galiuros! But maybe from H ell- hole to the Winchesters and every where in between there might be! Last years survey show'd a decrease in the numbers!!