Wolves - it's time to step up and comment

[Sam]

One species should not suffer at the fate of another. Wolves were extinct in Arizona - yes, man had something to do with this. But, the point is, habitat availablity is far different than it was when the wolves ran freely in AZ. To have wolves at the top of the food chain once again, will jeopardize the populations of deer, elk snd antelope. The human population is always trying to undue the past - forget about bringing back what we had and fixing our mistakes, move forward and let's manage our land, wildlife and resources a bit better for the future. I too will take cattle over wolves, as long as the cattle aren't allow to overgraze. It all comes down to proper management.

[elkhunter]

Mark- well posted and well explained, that's why they disappeared in the first place because they fed on cattle

 

 

That's the primary reason why wolves are doing so well up north, typically predator population remains parallel to prey population (wild prey mind you) but with cattle around it allows wolf population to be higher than their natural way because they don't depend on their natural prey only, whenever cattle is around there's way more food for wolves and allows their population to expand.

[muledeerarea33?]

98% of beef may very well come from feed lots but that's not where the steer started life. The feed lot is the third to last stop for the beef. Packing house and then retail store is last. Most beef start life on ranches. Leased, private, or public land either way the beef has to be born and raised before it goes to a feed lot for later slaughter. Could beef be raised solely at a smaller facility other than large section ranches? Probably, and I'm sure some beef is. Now for water. Most wildlife for the past 100 or so years has had steady and plentiful water due to ranchers, cattle or otherwise. The streams and springs that used to flow year around no longer flow due to population encroachment and water use. The natural water sources that are left are scarce but if found, they hold good populations of wildlife. Now to the wolves... With all that said the biggest problem I have with the wolves (other than the original implanted wolves not being pure bead Mexican grey) is the fact that we now have to tip toe around in the forest as to not disturb them, anything we do is considered to be bad for the wolf reintroduction. They do kill live stock and wildlife, ranchers have a hassle but are reimbursed for their product. Fully reimbursed? I don't know? I hate to think what the future will bring and the slippery slope of reintroducing wildlife. Not to mention what they have done with existing Arizona species, loach minnow, chub, spotted owl, etc.

[25-06]

An old but good read on wolves in az.http://www.wnd.com/2002/12/16364/

[PRDATR]

The 4 Drag is a special kind of place.

[rthrbhntng]

One of the biggest concerns with the Mexican gray wolf is that 90% of it's historic range is in Mexico. To force AZ and NM to house the only wolves when between the states we were 10% of the historic range is irresponsible. Most of the range was in southern AZ.

With other endangered species the US has compacts with Mexico, such as the sonoran pronghorn.

They did release 5 wolves in Mexico but they quickly disappeared. Another problem is if a wolf comes across the border from Mexico it is considered a separate population and has full protection, meaning it can't be caught and returned, even though it came from the same stock as the AZ/NM wolves in the 10j population that can be caught and returned to the secondary recovery area.

Much of the issue is not about wolves, it is about emotion and politics.

Steve

[dieselroe]

I already commented online. Hope it helps.

[Coach]

Not gonna flame you Bowsniper, I agree with much of what you said. Personally I'd love to see all cattle removed from public land in AZ as much as I'd love to see this failed, super-expensive wolf experiment defunded. But I don't agree that it's all about greed.

 

You argue against cattle because you see the devastation caused by our archaic adherence to the “free range” mentality. That culture in AZ has literally destroyed the natural grasses and other vegetation in AZ, which of course leads to faster soil erosion as the those long-stemmed grasses are replaced by invasive weeds and short-stemmed grasses, and eventually the drying up of streams and rivers throughout the state. It takes little more than a glance at a map of AZ pre-cattle and post to see the difference.

 

But to recognize those facts, and object to them, does not make you greedy - any more than those who object to the failed wolf policies that basically turn loose a hybrid wolf-dog into ranges it is not accustomed to, in the name of reviving “natural balance”.

 

I don’t want to derail this thread too far, but you have to look at not only AZG&F, but the USFWS and their obsession with what they deem “native species”. Their entire mission is to return to some imagined, utopic place in time where everything was supposedly in a state of natural balance. Just look at their obsession with Apache trout, all kinds of chubs nobody gives a rip about – you get the picture.

 

The truth is, that state probably never existed, and if it did, it was a microcosm. Even if it did occur once by accident, with urban expansion, increased demands on water, cattle grazing, huge farming interests, exploding population consuming more and more, we can’t recreate it artificially.

 

But the wolf, somehow is symbolic. If you protect the wolf, re-introduce it and see it succeed, then there is hope for the utopic dream. Only problem is, they tried it, it failed.

 

Millions of dollars later, we’re still on this wolf topic. And the places where re-introduction has occurred with all the accolades and success they wanted, wolves proved themselves once again to be a serious problem – for wildlife, for ranchers, to the public. They became so problematic that they have been de-listed as a protected species.

 

It’s time to pull the plug on the failed wolf money pit, and it’s time to start taking back public land from tiny minority of cattle grazers who view public land as their own private ranches.

[longshooter]

soo, anyone have any luck calling in wolves with E-callers?

[Guest wdenike]

Quote Elkhunter: Mark- well posted and well explained, that's why they disappeared in the first place because they fed on cattle.

 

 

Arizonians traditionally have been strong willed people. Although the state is being invaded by liberals. I do believe this problem will take care of it self. As the above poster has mentioned. Only difference this go round, will be in addition to the cattleman. You will be adding deer hunters, elk hunters, bird dog hunters, houndsmen,and sheep hunters. In addition to all these new groups that will not be happy. Also add the fact that people are sick and tired of getting things shoved down their throats by the loud mouth minority. And I believe anyone could fill in the blanks as to the out come. At some point we all have to agree you can't continue to reason with morons and expect different results. Maybe the wolves will get shoved down their throats this go round!!!

 

 

Take care, Willie

[25-06]

The 4 Drag is a special kind of place.

I couldnt have said it better. Thats Gods country up there.

[muledeerarea33?]

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The 4 Drag is a special kind of place.

I couldnt have said it better. Thats Gods country up there.

even better when you've hunted it your entire life.

[Flatlander79]

Well the game and fish released two more wolves into the wild. Makes no since to me.

[ultramag]

Wolves=endangered species a tool that animals rights activist use to stop hunting. No more game to hunt no more hunting. It's the indirect approach to stop hunting.. I firmly believe this is the approach and the federal government is supporting them..no surprise to me..

[PRDATR]

Here is the Press Release from G&F.

 

http://azgfd.net/artman/publish/NewsMedia/Plan-announced-for-2014-Mexican-wolf-releases-in-Arizona2.shtml