Voting for a new Govenor

[DesertBull]

I will never vote for a liberal. There are more important issues than Game Commissions and over grazing.

Like the fact that the liberals have been responsible for the deaths of 43,000,000 infants.

 

Next time you are out at the store, the movies, Cabela's, etc, take a good hard look at some ones infant. Now, imagine a doctor plunging a scaple into the back of it's head and scrambling it's brains. Liberals call that "modern, progressive thinking", I call it babaric.

 

Take a few minutes and look up some video on abortion. Look at how, as the surgeon's instrument enters the mother's womb, the baby tries to move away from it. Watch, as the baby is dismembered, how it shakes and trembles and how it's mouth opens wide trying to scream, then come back here and tell me that cows and "no tresspassing" signs are what is important during an election.

 

[russd]

I will never vote for a liberal. There are more important issues than Game Commissions and over grazing.

Like the fact that the liberals have been responsible for the deaths of 43,000,000 infants.

 

Next time you are out at the store, the movies, Cabela's, etc, take a good hard look at some ones infant. Now, imagine a doctor plunging a scaple into the back of it's head and scrambling it's brains. Liberals call that "modern, progressive thinking", I call it babaric.

 

Take a few minutes and look up some video on abortion. Look at how, as the surgeon's instrument enters the mother's womb, the baby tries to move away from it. Watch, as the baby is dismembered, how it shakes and trembles and how it's mouth opens wide trying to scream, then come back here and tell me that cows and "no tresspassing" signs are what is important during an election.

 

if nappy wins this one she will surely have greater aspirations. along with that come the national platform which includes the legal right for a woman and doctor to commit murder. i am daily baffled by this that our society is ok with this. i told my wife last night that she has the legal right to commit murder but if i were to do it i am a murderer. we are a sorry society in that first regard!

[Rembrant]

You are absolutely right desertbull. Yet on a hunting forum a good tactic would be to talk about hunting issues.

I like your boldness. The truth is the truth.

More than a little bit odd isn't it that Scott Petersen can be tried for double murder in California for killing his pregnant wife, but if SHE terminated the childs' life it would be considered meerly a choice?

Doesn't really work does it?

Thanks for the pics of your angel.

Mike

[dave]

Bobbvo,

 

I had forgotten you did not like 106.

Your jab about a previous Governor and the Chilton’s seems like a chapter out of the Sierra Club Handbook. I don’t want to trade jabs with you, I am too much of a bigot and way too grouchy for that.

Here is some of my opinion for you to think about. Science is important and should be what all decisions are based on. Science can also be used to support any goal someone has. Science can be used to reduce animal numbers, increase animal numbers, reduce certain species, increase certain species, etc.. Who decides what the goal is? I think it is wrong to have Scientists set the goals.

The Department employs biologists who can apply the science to the goals established. I think it can be a bad thing to have wildlife biologists on the Commission directing the Department. This is what we are getting into now with the last two Commissioners being wildlife biologists. It can very easily become a situation where they micro manage the Department to accomplish a personal agenda and have very little concern for what the public wants because they are the Scientists. Science and goals are two different things. If you look at the new Strategic Plan you will not see any guidelines, goals or science.

I really don’t know how to improve the system we have now. From my perspective Commissioners that are responsive to the people that have financially supported the Department for many years are good Commissioners. That would include hunters, fishermen, etc. not the Animal Defense League, Sierra Club, Earth First etc.. In the same way, a Governor that appoints good Commissioners is a good Governor.

Just another note: I have read studies by scientists that show some species of wildlife flourish in areas where grazing takes place. Some species flourish in areas where there is no grazing. I guess it can be used both ways to find a balance.

One of the highlights of the last few years for me was to see the Chilton’s sue the Center of Biological Diversity. Fantastic!!!

[SilentButDeadly]

In defense of science,

 

Dave you are right, individuals do further their own agendas to achieve personal goals.

 

However, good science does not further personal agendas - science has no desire to pick or choose any particular outcome. Studies and their results can be manipulated to create desired effects. A well designed study removes the possibility of investigator bias. It is good science that we can use to make decisions. We must remember that science is only a tool! Science is just the word we use to describe the ways in which we can most accurately determine what is going on in the world around us.

 

Rational decision makers who base their decisions on knowledge and facts, not faith or beliefs, is someone I would call a scientist. Someone who votes down good management strategies because of a personal belief or faith that they are doing what is right is unacceptable, that person is called a zealot, fanatic, extremist, not a scientist. People who make informed decisions are what we need in goverment.

 

I'm done posting this thread, I'm going back to why I came to this site in the first place.

 

Tyson

[az4life]

Tyson

 

Knowledge is something you know to be true and therefore BELIEVE.

Even Good Science or scientific surveys are influenced by the beliefs of the scientist.

 

Interpretation of the data is the task of the scientist so it is therefore in-exact by nature.

Personal beliefs influence everything we do. It's part of being human.

 

Lets say I take a temperature survey and chart low temps reached for 1 year in Phoenix. I decide that to graph and group the findings, I will categorize the readings in 5 categories.

Extreme Cold - Cold - Moderate - Warm - Hot

The point at which I decide the temperature is Hot will be 100 degrees or above. Extreme cold is Below Zero.

By my choosing the ranges corresponding to names, I have influenced the findings with my beliefs.

 

Get 10 scientists in a room together and pose the same scenario, I bet none of them would agree on what temps go with which name. Take the survey in Alaska, and the scale would also change due to physical influences and "feelings" of the scientists.

 

Now that is just one example of why few things are an "Exact Science" for you.

 

This is a hunting forum so I too will get back to it. I was forced to send time on the PC since it was extremely cold (20-38) in Wyoming today and I was trying to heat things up a bit.

[dave]

In defense of Tyson, I agree with everything you just said.

 

Science may say that Arizonas habitat can support 40,000 elk. Science may say that with predator management in antelope areas, Arizona may increase their antelope herds 10 fold. Science can tell you this can take place but how will it really happen? Who decides if it should happen?

 

When you say you are done posting on this thread, does that mean you are done with science, politics, religion, hunting or what? If you came here to hunt in the first place, how will you work to preserve that portion of what you want to do? Is it a personal science? Most hunters just want to hunt and be left alone. That is how all the other groups in this world come in and start kicking our butts. You will find that the folks in the preservationist groups are way more religious than hunters, way more passionate, dedicated and have a lot of time on their hands.

 

Whoops, almost forgot to mention...for some reason ranchers know how to grow animals??? I don't know where they all got their sciece degree? For some reason they make water for their animals. For some reason they make sure their animals are fed. For some reason??? This is pretty intence sciece right here.

[KGAINES]

All I can say is that anyone who has a problem needs to go to a few commission meetings and then decide if you like how things are being done, it is an eye opening experience. I have been to a few now and there are times I can't believe what I am hearing and why it is being said. I have noticed that the antis have been at every meeting I have been to also, and when decisions are being made that affect me I would like to know why they are being made.

One quick note on the hunt guidelines, the way it was explained to me was the guidelines for next year were part of last years guidelines ( the ones where our survey didn't matter ), and will not be changed for another year since it was a two year plan. Good Luck to all and God Bless.

[bobbyo]

Az4life good to see you are adapting to your new life I suspect you will be posting more than ever come December and January. I think you need a new screen name. How about "arizonan on ice." We will all be jealous of the huge racks you will be posting soon. Stay warm.

 

Keith and Dave, I really respect your views and try to understand them the best I can. I know you are both passionate and true to your beliefs. I would vote or nominate either one of you to the G+F commission. I just feel that your fear of the tree huggers is not justified. I have had great hunts on nature conservatory land, in wilderness areas and on refuges. I have never had a good hunt in a subdivision. I might be bitter because some of my favorite spots around Tucson have been bulldozed in the last couple of years and probably more will be bulldozed next year. I guess this is progress. This will be my last post on this topic. As you can tell i like to share my view, but my hunt starts in nine days and I have to help fill alot of tags.

Bob

[dave]

My gun range at Sabino was left behind. My archery range at Laquachi was left behind. My son found other things to chase. Time changes many things. We as hunters lose most of the time. Time will tell.

 

Good luck on your hunts Bobbvo.

 

You won't mind me reminding you about the past if your gov. wins will you?