Buenos Aires Refuge

[ichiban43]

Given the illegal alien problem in the area of the refuge, how strict is the enforcement of the rule of having the gun unloaded and cased while traveling or not hunting. I might camp in the refuge and a loaded gun in camp is a necessity. Hope it just doesn't depend on which side of the bed they get up on.

[KGAINES]

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/refuges/arizo...es/hunting.html

 

I see a phone number on this page, if I was you I would call and see what they say.

[ichiban43]

[i see a phone number on this page, if I was you I would call and see what they say.

 

Thanx Keith--will do that. But I bet they go by the book. They could get in a jam if they said otherwise. Am hoping that someone will respond who has had an experience with the issue. Thanx again--I'll let everyone know what they say.

BOB

[25-06]

I wouldn't camp anywere in southern Az. without a handgun.......Sad it's got to be that way

[audsley]

I can't promise you, but I think they have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. I wouldn't ask, I'd just do it but don't have the gun out where people see it. I have talked with some refuge personnel who believe the restrictions on sidearms should be lifted on at least two refuges in the Southwest. And as one official told me, carrying a handgun on a refuge is punishable as a misdemeanor; not carrying one and needing it could be punishable by death.

 

For an idea of how refuge personnel view the personal safety situation down there, read this testimony from the refuge manager to Congressional committee:

 

http://www.fws.gov/laws/Testimony/109th/20...15,%202006.html

[ajohunter]

I have been friends with the Refuge Manager for many years as he is also from Ajo. I will call him and ask him about this. I dont believe it would be a problem at all to carry a sidearm while hunting though.

[ichiban43]

Thanx all of you for the input. Carrying a side arm while hunting probably wouldn't be a problem--after all -it is legal to carry a firearm WHILE HUNTING. That is where the technicality begins. All firearms in a vehicle must be unloaded and cased--not too much worry there. Can out run them. The big question is while in camp. Am I "hunting" if I am in camp on a lunch break? And what about at nite--a loaded pistol and 12 ga are always at the ready.

 

Like I said--I will post on this thread what they tell me when I call.

 

Thanx again for the input--I know it can be dangerous and discretion may fall to valor in the end.

 

BOB

[ichiban43]

This is the response that I got regarding firearms.

 

 

For the refuge, the letter of the law on this issue is that visitors are

only allowed to have loaded weapons while hunting (in the field, actively

hunting). Our officers will cite people for taking weapons into the "no

hunt" zones. We will also cite people for having a loaded weapon in a

vehicle. However, while it technically is illegal to have a loaded weapon

in camp, our officers won't cite for that if it appears you are doing it

for personal safety reasons. We are trying to take a reasonable approach

when it comes to weapons violations vs personal safety due to border

issues. You can forward this to Mr. Mattern if you like.

 

Mitch Ellis

Refuge Manager

[AZP&Y]

Bob,

Not sure if you've consider this or not? But go and get your concealed weapons permit. I'm not trying to circumvent the law by telling you that, but more of an option in certain situations. You want to carry a weapon in camp and in my years of hunting down there I've never had a problem with that aspect of hunting/camping on the refuge. It's pretty much as they have stated and what they have/will enforce.

 

I hope the refuge returns to it's earlier years and the quality of what a refuge should be. It's a nice place camp and as some forgotten is not a landfill.

 

Good luck and your hunt!

 

 

Doug

AzP&Y

[ichiban43]

Bob,

Not sure if you've consider this or not? But go and get your concealed weapons permit. I'm not trying to circumvent the law by telling you that, but more of an option in certain situations. You want to carry a weapon in camp and in my years of hunting down there I've never had a problem with that aspect of hunting/camping on the refuge. It's pretty much as they have stated and what they have/will enforce.

 

I hope the refuge returns to it's earlier years and the quality of what a refuge should be. It's a nice place camp and as some forgotten is not a landfill.

 

Good luck and your hunt!

 

 

Doug

AzP&Y

 

Doug--

Thanx for the good idea. The problem down there is BAAAAAAAAAD. In 2 days of scouting I saw 3 illegals myself and was very close to 3 busts of groups coming through. About ready to fugedaboutit--the wife--due to all the media reprts about the drug runners and bazookas,AK-47's and so forth is about ready to have a coronary. Might just concentrate on my Dec cow hunt in 9.

Thanx again--

BOB

[lookinfor110]

I hunted the refuge a lot in the 90's...it was awesome. Not so good anymore for reasons already discussed. Game & Fish also patrols the Refuge. The field agent has a very aggressive view of the Road Hunting laws and isn't afraid to pull archers or firearms hunters over and question (harass) them about the possibility of them road hunting. Be aware of his questions: is your bow in its case, are you wearing your release, is your firearm loaded, is it in its case, etc, etc. I've experienced this and know of at least one other hunter who's gotten the same treatment from the agent. I can't describe it other than to say that the way he goes about it, it just doesn't seem right. Does anyone know how the exact law(s) read regarding road hunting. Might be an interesting thread.

[Tines]

It states that, "No person may take wildlife from a motor vehicle..........."

 

Then it states that "Take, as defined by law, includes pursuing, shooting, hunting and killing wildlife. You are unlawfully using a vehicle to take wildlife if you intentionally drive around until you see the animal you wish to harvest and then make an attempt to take................"

 

I've spent a lot of time down south and haven't had the issues above mentioned. In fact, 36A's manager is quite the opposite. He's pretty understanding.

 

Different managers have varying views on the definitions but they all agree that they typically go after those who have had complaints against them or are under investigation for suspicious activity. Not saying they wouldn't question your average joe but let's face it, it's their job to "harass". Also, there's way too much road hunting down south anyway so it needs to be enforced. It's starting to look like northern AZ. It's only affected me during archery hunts though.

 

It's a pretty vague law (like many of them). Only YOU know if you're "road hunting". I've found that most (NOT ALL) people who question the road hunting laws, if they were honest with themselves, are in fact, road hunters.

[COOSEFAN]

I wouldn't be too upset if everybody just drove around and "hunted" be alot less poeple runnin' around the hills! JIM>