New law in Mexico

[CouesCrazy]

I just returned from Hemosillo yesterday from looking at some new ranches for Coues and Mullies and there was a Outfitter meeting trying to pass a law that american outfitters could not buy,sell or guide hunts without going through a Mexixo outfitter. The reason for thier complant was that its hard for the mexico outfitters to sell the hunts because they dont have the connections to sell the tags for high doller like the American outfitters can. My friend from down there called me about 8:30 tonight and said that they passed the law tonight. I was just wondering if any of you other guides or hunters had heard anything about this or had any suggestions on how to fight this. There are alot of good mexican outfitters but the majoraty of the ones I have dealt with are all about the $ and not managing the deer herds and I am not willing to deal with them. Let me know if anybody knows anything. If I hear anything new I will post it, Thanks

[Guest Ernesto C]

CouesCrazy do you ar your friend have a copy of this law? Or a copy of the Act of this meeting? Do you know who was involved in that meeting? Ranch owners and/or all the other organizations,goverment institutions and or mexican federations?

 

This may be a rumor but also I wont be sorprise if it is true,but always guess who's the one loosing? the hunter. Any way you look at this situation is about $$.

 

Is there a mexican oufitters organization or something like that?

 

I dont think this is true and if it is the ranch owners will not like it, a lots of people will not like it. I'll believet when I see it.

 

So CouesCrazy show us the facts and then we'll talk.

 

God bless and thank you.

 

Ernesto C.

[coueshunter]

Couescrazy: I have not heard this from anyone yet. I would not be surprised if a Mexican Outfitter association would like this but the Landowner and Government will be the deciding parties. There will be a great meeting in Phoenix August 21st where our USFW will discuss any upcoming changes for Mexico. USFW will present the Mexican requirements for hunting and any rules that are new or old that will now be aggressively enforced. I know the Mexican Gov. is wanting to ensure they get all they can in tag fees etc. and the landowners dont want to see a reduction in hunters so I would doubt the Outfitters can push through any protectionism plans like requiring a Mexican guide if the law will reduce the money pouring into Mexico.........just my two cents.......Allen Taylor...........

[Guest Ernesto C]

Hey Allen August 21st is a Saturday,do you know where and at what time this meeting will be? Thanks.

 

Ernesto C.

[kirkkelso]

Allen,

 

You are exactly right!!!!

 

The landowners and Government will drive this issue, not the Mexican Outfitters. It has been illegal for several years to outfit in Mexico without a Mexican partner. Some of us use a Mexican partner and others use the landowner, which is fully legal to do. I know the Mexican Outfitters Association has been trying for years to stop this, as they feel we are the reason for their lack of clients, but in fact it's there own failures that have caused it. If everyone was happy and felt content to hunt with a Mexican Outfitter, then we would be out of work! There are legal issues that must be met to legally work in Mexico, and once these things are met, the Outfitters Association has nothing to do or say about it. I understand their motives for trying this, but they don't stand a chance against the other entities that welcome us and our clients to Mexico.

[CouesCrazy]

I dont have any othe info on the law. I heard from a few people when I was down there that they were meeting to discuss it. When I got back to Az on Sunday night I got a call from my buddy who runs a hunting mag and guides down there and he told me the law has passed. That is all I know, He is a pretty reliable sorce but I still dont know if its true or not. I am going to contact him and a few other people tonight and see whats going on. I will post any new info I hear. Kirk you probably have more contacts then I do down there so Im sure you can find out something, Thanks guys, Derek

[kirkkelso]

Derek,

 

What you are talking about has always been the law. I'm not sure what you are stating.

 

Kirk Kelso

[CouesCrazy]

The difference is that the rancher cant listed as the guide or the tag broker. They were talking about having a set 3 of mexico outfitters that the hunts had to go through. But none of this may be true. I was just checking to see if you guys had heard anything. You would know the laws better then I would. I just know that alot of the guides down there are upset cause they cant compete with us for the tags cause they have a problem selling them so they were raising heck. I just dont want there to be another ahnd in the purchasing of my tags, Derek

[CouesCrazy]

Sorry guys the 3 in my last entry was supposed to be " set # of guides" thats why Im an outfitter and not a secretary! By the way Kirk, have you ever had any problem bringing sheds across the border?

[kirkkelso]

I can assure you that there will never be any law passed by the Mexican Government that would regulate all hunting tags to be issued from three, five or ten Outfitters in the Sonoran Outfitters Association. That will not happen as there are way more powerful landowners there than any outfitters and power is what runs that country. I know the outfitters bitch every year that we are down there running hunts, and I get the nasty looks and trash talk behind my back every year from them, yet when I'm alone, and they have the chance, there isn't any of them who hasn't approached me for my business. The landowners on a whole don't like and will not do business with many of them as they have been very unscrupulous with their dealings with landowners. We all have heard the horror stories from hunters of many a Mexican Outfitter, but down there the stories are from the landowners. Don't get me wrong as there are several competent Mexican Outfitters and they have plenty of business and don't care if we are there or not. It's the bad ones that are screaming.

 

Irregardless of their bitching they haven't a leg to stand on with that course of action.

 

You can not bring shed antlers back from Mexico. If you do, you stand the chance of being issued felony Lacey Act violations. The only way a shed can be brought in is with an import-export license from USFWS as well as the Mexican license of the same issued by SEMARNAP. There is an outfitter from here in Tucson who was arrested and issued over 30 violations for this last January.

 

Kirk Kelso

Edited January 1, 1970 by kirkkelso

[COUESAZ]

Kirk

 

Good enough info to let this one rest. You should know how it works down there. Like coues crazy said he was sure it was just here say. The power down there is for sure the guy's with the money in hand and the land to back it with.

 

I wish you guy's a good safe year in the field this year and plenty of trophy class bucks. I am sure the trophy class bucks will be there for your team. I look forward to seeing them in trophy hunter magazine this year.

 

Jade Goodman.

[Guest Ernesto C]

kirk thanks for sharing your knowledge with us and open our eyes,I wish all the people were willing to share/help others the way you do. And I encourage any body that know or have some experience on this to do the same thing.

 

I agree with you,there are some good outfitters and there are some not so good outfitters out there. That's why is so important that us the hunters before hiring and outfitter we must do our home work;ask for references,ask your friends or people in hunting forums like this one for their experience with "x" oufitter,how many of their hunters are repetitive customers and I can keep going on and on with all the questions we should ask.

The oufitter we(the hunters) hire must know the importation/exportation laws Does he has a license for all of this and for his bussines?

Your outfitter shoul be able to tell us the hunters what we are required to provide or meet in order to hunt Mexico legally.

If the outfitter is not familiar with all of this ( and there is a lot more things) we must get out of there;remember is our $$$ and our but that one going to jail.

 

Some of this "want to be outfitters" all what they whant is $$$.They dont care of the quality of the time,hunt and trophy you take.

And of course once they get all their stuff together and know the laws,improve their reputation and take care of their problems they will get more customers.

 

CouesCrazy do you know what parties of the goverment were on this meeting? Any legislators? Or this was a exclusivelly mexican outfitters meeting only?

CouesCrazy have you had any problems crosing sheds or deer across the border?and Why?

 

Take care everybody and remember The Lord is ready to bless you.

 

Ernesto C.

[Guest ivan flores]

friends, i been for more than 10 years legal representative for AGADES the land owner asoasiation, and i have never hear about that law, is imposible the law seid that all the tags are issue to the land owner, and he can do whatever he wants with those tags. to change that law it will take years.---- Ivan Flores ivanafl@hmo.megared.net.mx

any question feel free sorry for my english.-

[Guest Guest_kirkkelso]

Ivan is my partner in Sonora. As you can read by his post, this will not happen. Landowners receive the tags and can issue them to whomever they please. An Outfitters Association has nothing to do with that and has no way of changing it. The Sonoran Outfitters Association has only about 6 to 8 members left, so I know they have no power.

 

Kirk Kelso

[Guest Ernesto C]

Gracias Sr. Ivan for your information and help in the clearing of this discussion.

 

Thank you and God bless you.

 

Ernesto C.