Guest oneshot Report post Posted June 7, 2013 Front page of the Arizona Daily Star 7June 2013.... AzGFD has a "plan" for the problem of future predation of the coming re-introduction of Big Horn Sheep to the Catalinas. Since all of the Sheep will have tracking collars, they will be able to identify dead Sheep, go to the area and if it is a Mountian Lion kill, hire some houndsmen to track and kill the " offending " Mt. Lion. Spokesmen from the Wilderness Society, center for Biological Divesersity, Sierra Club support this plan and state " The end goal is for the two species, predator and prey, is COEXISTING as they have naturally done"... " Lions are part of the system ".... " Part of what we're trying to do is re-establish that balance between sheep and people, That means learning to coexist with sheep by observing trail restrictions and dog restrictions" ... MY reaction: The big surpise is that there is even thought of Mt. Lion predation by AzGFD, I gotta give AzGFD a pat on the back for that, but that doesnt make-up for the junk-punch AxGFD deserves for the idea of re-introducing Sheep to the Catalinas in the first place. Predator and prey EXSIT by the predator eating the prey, natural behavour that doesnt need human intervention.... Yes Lions are part of the system, and Mt. Lions love eating Sheep... Sheep dont care to be around people, so the trail restrictions are going to close off a major receation area next to a growing urban area for months at a time, There wasnt ANY other place in Arizona that could use a boost to their Bighorn Sheep numbers??? No other place that could use a boost to their gene-pool??? This has to rank high on the list of AzGFD failures to protect and enhance overall game animal health and wellbeing... IMHO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted June 7, 2013 Here we go again "junk punching" the AZGFD again by a expert biologist. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pine Donkey Report post Posted June 7, 2013 If we humans are going to inject ourselves into the interaction between sheep and lions, I think we should take it from the reactive (killing offending lions) to the proactive. The groups involved in this reintroduction should create a heard of tofu sheep. These will be much slower than the real sheep and thus should draw all the lions predatory intentions. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
THOR Report post Posted June 7, 2013 If they bring sheep in they are going to be killed by lions or leave the mountain because of to many people!!!!! It is a bad idea, why do you think they killed and left many years ago or got killed by lions? I have seen them in the Tortallinas north of Tucson last year and that is where they are going to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reganranch Report post Posted June 7, 2013 http://m.tucsonnewsnow.com/ms/p/a3/86/view.m?id=124279&storyId=22527448&news=Top%20Stories&news2=Main Hungry,Hungry Kitties Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Becker Report post Posted June 7, 2013 Lions are a major problem obviously. But sheep do coexist with lions. The number of lions would be my main concern and I can see lions overtaking the sheep. Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the lion/sheep issues arise in units that all that is there is mostly sheep and lions only. Very few deer if any, or any other prey species for that matter. If all they have to eat is sheep, well you know the picture. With multiple prey species I could see the sheep doing way better than may be thought simply because of other prey options. Look at Arivaipa as an example. You can't tell me there aren't lots of lions over there. There are still sheep there. All the concern over the human encroachment I think is overstated. We have built up to the national forest line now. If human activity plays such a factor as lots of you have mentioned why do all the Rockies hang out in town at Morenci, or all the Deserts in the mine site in the Silverbells. ?????? I think the sheep that WERE there had a hard time because their habitat that they were accustomed in using was overtaken by us. If you put sheep back there now I don't see an issue with them getting acclimated to the habitat they have available and being able to live as happy as can be. I guess in my mind the human aspect is pretty much not a factor simply because of all the examples of sheep living in and around human activity already. Just my 2 cents! In the end, my feeling is it would be cool if sheep were back in the Catalinas. They were there before, they could be again. The other thing to think about is a ton of our prime sheep units that currently exist were started from transplants. They WERE there originally, then gone for what ever factor, and are now there again because we put them back. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sidwynder505 Report post Posted June 7, 2013 "Just like bringing back the mexican wolf"???....Now thats a very bad idea!! ....think about this!... More sheep tags for people later on! an to watch the sheep is pretty cool!..yeah they might move to another location! and then they will have a sheep tag in 37A!.. or better yet they make it to silverbell herd!!....my point being is maybe the sheep in the "Santa Catalina Mountains" deserve a second chance? But i think as sportsmen we should stand on what we "BRAG" about all the time is that!...." We as hunters do more for perserving habitat an animals then the anti hunting groups do!..with modern technology maybe they have made some advances in perserving the herds and helping the balance between predation and pray!...sickness an health for the sheep!...i understand what your trying to say "ONESHOT"!.....but i can think off alot worse things to waste money on then trying to bring back sheep in this area!...more and more money is wasted by out "IRS"! in one weekend then what this project will cost!...an if it doesnt workout! then we can say we tryed!..but we should give every chance so hunters can experance a once in a life time hunt in there back yard! thanks Steve 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpriest Report post Posted June 7, 2013 I agree with Becker on this one. It would be cool to see sheep back in the Catalinas and eventually have another huntable population. I heard that one of the main reasons the sheep died out was due to the spread of disease from domestic sheep and goats. When I lived in Tucson I didn't see much domestic livestock still around that area. Also you have to consider predator/prey ratios. If you have a small amount of sheep (prey) and a high number of predators (lions) the sheep will not be able to build their numbers due to predation. Therefore you have to knock down the number of predators until the sheep numbers grow large enough that they are able to sustain their population with a higher level of predation. With alternative prey species in the area I think if would help the sheep because it would allow the lions to fulfill their appetites with something other than sheep and hopefully reduce predation. As far trail closures go I have nothing. Yes it sucks to lose a recreation area but we have to make sacrifices in order to preserve wildlife and their habitats. After all we humans are the ones who caused them to die off in the first place. Hopefully the closures will only be seasonal during the time lambs are dropping. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted June 7, 2013 These are snippets from two of my articles on bighorn sheep . Both were written in the late 1980s-early 90s ********************************* .................The biologists claim sheep first came here more than half a million years ago by crossing the Bering land-bridge from Asia. They eventually spread across the western half of the North America. The scientists haven't pinpointed just how far the expansion went before the last glacial age, but many of them believe the glaciers affected the animals' movement and evolution. As the ice retreated, the sheep followed and settled in different areas of the continent, where they adapted to the terrain and climate. The evolution resulted in several subspecies from the white sheep of the cold northern climates to the desert bighorn of the arid southwest regions. The Rocky Mountain variety filled the climate zone between the extremes. Prior to the influx of civilization to Arizona in the late 1800s, both the desert and the Rocky Mountain bighorns actually inhabited Arizona's mountain ranges. James Ohio Pattie wandered the wilds of Arizona and New Mexico in 1824. His diary, THE PERSONAL NARRATIVE OF JAMES OHIO PATTIE OF KENTUCKY, contained the following: "We called it the San Francisco River. After traveling up its banks about four miles, we encamped and set out all traps and killed a couple of fat turkeys. In the morning we examined our traps, and found in them 37 beavers! This success restored our spirits instantaneously. Exhilarating prospects now opened before us, and we pushed on with animation. The banks of this river for the most part incapable of cultivation being in most part formed of high and rugged mountains. Upon these we saw multitudes of mountain sheep. These animals are not found on level ground, being they slow of foot, but on these cliffs and rocks they are so nimble and expert in jumping from point to point, that no dog or wolf can overtake them. One of them that we killed had the largest horns that I ever saw on animals of any description. One of them would hold a gallon of water. Their meat tastes like our mutton. Their hair is short like deer's, though fine. The French call them "gros cornes," from the size of their horns which curl around their ears, like our domestic sheep. These animals are about the size of deer." Because the terrain around the San Francisco River is atypical for desert sheep, the experts concluded Pattie's "mountain sheep" were Rocky Mountain bighorns. Sadly, they didn't exist in Arizona too long after the settlement of the West began. Both the Rocky Mountain bighorn and the Merriam's elk disappeared from the state during the late 1800s. The desert bighorns, victims of indiscriminate hunting and diseases borne by domestic livestock, almost suffered the same fate. In 1897, the first Arizona game law -- Title 16, Relative to the Preservation of Game Birds and Animals -- outlawed the hunting of sheep from February to October. It still wasn't enough to stem the decline and possible extinction. The state game warden reported to the governor in 1914: "Our mountain sheep have already been exterminated or driven out of a vast area of our once-good game country, and at the present rate at which the work of destruction is going on, largely through the convenient and efficient medium of the automobile, our 20,000 or so licensed hunters, will finish the work of extermination before the general public awakens to a realization of the situation, and demands a sudden and abrupt halt, in order to give our few remnants of a game a chance to replenish." Although the warden's dire prediction led to closing the sheep hunting season, even more measures to prevent the desert bighorn's demise came to fruition in 1939 with the establishment of the Kofa Game Range and Cabeza Prieta Wildlife Refuge in southeastern Arizona. They served as the last strongholds for the desert sheep and subsequently provided the nucleus for experimental sheep relocations that culminated in 1957 with the first transplant to Aravaipa Canyon. More importantly, though, the short-term protection of the bighorns at the two refuges led to the reopening of a hunting season in 1953. Unit 46A, where both of the Varners hunted, covers the eastern half of the Cabeza Prieta Refuge........................ ********************************.............At one time the desert bighorn inhabited most of Arizona's mountain ranges. Human encroachment, the enigma of the elk, played a major role in their decline, too. Meat hunters, unparticular as to what type of game graced the table, haphazardly slaughtered hundreds of sheep. In addition, hordes of domestic livestock competed with the bighorns for the sometimes scarce, available food and water. Disease, introduced and transmitted by the livestock, decimated entire herds. Finally, interested citizens, who feared the demise of the bighorn, sought to protect it. To prevent the sheep's extinction, government agencies established the Kofa Game Range and Cabeza Prieta Wildlife Refuge in 1939. Located in southeastern Arizona, they constituted the last remaining strongholds for the bighorn. In time, the two areas provided a nucleus herd, subsequently permitting game researchers to undertake transplants into other historical bighorn areas. The AGFD selected Aravaipa Canyon, near Klondyke, as the site for the initial restocking. They constructed a 112-acre enclosure in 1957 and released 8 sheep within the following two years. The herd failed to reproduce and dwindled to two rams by 1964. Determined personnel transferred eight more bighorns from the Kofa Game Range. The second effort produced the desired results when the herd grew to 22. Hopeful the sheep would adapt, game specialists released them from the control area. Sheep in Aravaipa steadily increased to the present estimated population of 100. In 1980, permits to hunt desert bighorn in the canyon became a reality. The unit has produced exceptional rams, including a record book head taken in 1982 by John Harris. In December, Jim Ferguson of Yuma, who won a raffled permit that the state had donated to the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society, pursued a ram at Aravaipa in December. Elated with the apparent success of the first bighorn transplant, the Arizona Game and Fish Department, with the aid of advanced trapping techniques, has continued to reestablish the sheep. Since 1980 it has relocated animals into the Superstition, Virgin, Galiuro and Eagletail Mountains; the Paria Canyon Primitive Area, the Grand Wash Cliffs and Goat Mountain. Some of these ranges have had recent, supplemental stockings. In November, 1984 the Kofa Game Range supplied 30 sheep for release at Coffee Flat in the Superstitions. Redfield Canyon, in the Galiuros, recieved 10 bighorns taken from the Plamosa Mountains. Long-term plans include more than 20 sites already designated as ideal habitat for future releases. Because transplants are extremely expensive, funding sometimes creates an obstacle; it takes $850 to move one sheep. Multiplying this amount times the 54 sheep captured near Lake Mead last year comes to $45,900 --- give or take a few cents! The Arizona Game and Fish Department, a self-supporting entity, found it extremely difficult to budget all of the needed funds for transplant efforts. Even though beneficial, some were postponed, while more urgent matters emptied the department's coffers. A group of hunters and conservationists, aware of the need for better sheep management programs, banded together and organized the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society in 1967. Since then, the society has raised thousands of dollars, and members, none of whom receive money for their efforts, have spent hours improving and building waterholes; assisting at sheep captures and releases and donating time for adminstrative work. Last year the ADBSS persuaded the Game Commission to donate two permits for fund-raising efforts. Because no provision for this unprecedented request was ever enacted, the legislature passed an amended law in July 1983. The first permit, auctioned on February 24, 1984 in California at a benefit conducted by the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, raised $64,000 --- the amount bid by Don Pocapalia of Ranchos Palos Verdes, California.The second one, mentioned earlier, brought another $82,450. The total monies from both permits, along with other fund-raising activities, amounted to $149,000. Since all of this money will help safeguard the bighorn's welfare, the department can use other funds on additional projects. Now, by using this year's society funds only, game managers can relocate 175 1/2 sheep!,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted June 7, 2013 The Decline of Bighorn Sheep in the Santa Catalina Mountains, Arizona Paul R. Krausman, William W. Shaw, Richard C. Etchberger, and Lisa K. Harris The research study (circa 1994-95) at the link above is a good read *********************************************************** February 02, 2010 12:00 am • Doug Kreutz Arizona Daily Star Critters of Southern Arizona Signs at two popular trailheads north of Tucson tout a small herd of bighorn sheep in the Catalina Mountains - and they list hiking restrictions to protect the animals. Only one problem: The herd apparently has died out. The signs and restrictions remain, but they apply to what might be described as "phantom bighorns." "The Catalina population of bighorns is gone," said Jim Heffelfinger, a spokesman for the Arizona Game and Fish Department. "I haven't had any good reports of sheep from the herd up there for seven or eight years." Heffelfinger said that means the resident herd - which once numbered more than 100 bighorns in the Pusch Ridge area on the southwestern side of the Catalinas - no longer exists. It's still possible that people might spot "transient" bighorns from other ranges from time to time. A recent reported sighting involved a sheep with a yellow ear tag, Heffelfinger said. That indicates the animal might have been a transient from mountains near Superior, where bighorns have been fitted with yellow tags. Heffelfinger said likely reasons for the demise of the Catalina herd include: • Extensive urbanization around the base of Pusch Ridge, with streets and buildings taking over terrain ever nearer bighorn habitat. • Hikers - especially hikers with dogs - who disturb sheep and "have a slow, pervasive influence on survival and reproduction." • Heavy growth of brush, a result of former fire suppression policies, that makes bighorns vulnerable to predators such as mountain lions. "The sheep didn't disappear all of a sudden," Heffelfinger said. "We just saw less and less and less over the years." He said what turned out to be the last survey of bighorns in the Catalinas, conducted in 1997, found only one animal. So what about those signs at the Finger Rock Canyon trailhead, at the northern end of Alvernon Way, and the Pima Canyon trailhead, on Magee Road east of First Avenue? The signs state that "the bighorn herd in Pusch Ridge Wilderness represents the last remnant of herds" that once roamed several mountain ranges around Tucson. "The Pusch Ridge herd is now in serious jeopardy," the signs say. "Less than 20 bighorns survive in the area." Such information would appear to be misleading, at best, if nothing is left of the herd. Is it time to take down the signs and drop regulations that prohibit dogs and limit off-trail hiking? Not yet, say officials of the Game and Fish Department and the U.S. Forest Service. Heffelfinger and Forest Service spokeswoman Heidi Schewel said one reason for leaving the signs in place is that there's at least some chance that bighorns might be reintroduced into the Catalinas. "We've been in discussions with Arizona Game and Fish about Pusch Ridge being a possible site" for transplanting bighorns from other parts of the state, Schewel said. "Leaving the signs and restrictions in place seemed like a good idea, given that there might be a reintroduction." But a reintroduction wouldn't happen anytime soon, Heffelfinger said, because sufficient source populations from other sites aren't available now. "And if they became available three or four years down the way, the Catalinas probably wouldn't be the first place we put sheep," Heffelfinger said. That's because transplanted animals would face the same conditions that apparently led to the demise of the original herd. Heffelfinger acknowledged that leaving the inaccurate signs up indefinitely might not be a good idea. "After a while, it becomes kind of meaningless," he said. Meanwhile, tourist David Tzeutschler, preparing to take a walk on the Pima Canyon Trail last week with his 3-year-old son, Timothy, chose to take a hopeful approach. "Maybe we'll see a bighorn," he said to Timothy as the two started up the trail. ************************* ARIZONA GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT HABITAT PARTNERSHIP COMMITTEE HABITAT ENHANCEMENT AND WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT PROPOSAL Game Branch / HPC Project Number: 11-507 Possible Funding Partners: PROJECT INFORMATION Project Title: Restoration of Bighorn Sheep in the Santa Catalina Mountains Region and Game Management Unit: 5, 33 Local Habitat Partnership Committee (LHPC): • Tucson Was the project presented to the LHPC? YES[X] NO[] Has this project been submitted in previous years? YES[] NO[X] If Yes, was it funded? YES[] NO[] HPC Project #: Project Type: Bighorn Sheep Restoration Brief Project Summary: To restore a viable population of bighorn sheep (Ovis Canadensis) in the Santa Catalina Mountains of GMU 33. Recent habitat assessments have confirmed suitable, but unoccupied habitat in the Catalinas. Krausman et al. (2004) reevaluated bighorn sheep habitat in the Catalinas following the Bullock and Aspen fires in 2002 and 2003 respectively. Using their GIS model, they calculated 39,201 ha of potential habitat in the entire Santa Catalina Mountains and 9,017 ha of historic habitat in the western portion of the range. Approximately 21% of the potential bighorn sheep habitat and approximately 24% of the historic bighorn sheep habitat was burned during the Bullock and Aspen fires. This year, AGFD Regional personnel and the Forest Service used the Cunningham/Hansen method (Cunningham 1989) to evaluate bighorn sheep habitat in the Catalinas and concluded that the range is suitable for bighorn sheep. Approximately 30 bighorn sheep will be captured from Region’s 4, 5, and 6 pending availability, and fitted with real time mortality sensing satellite GPS collars. The collars will provide cause-specific mortality data, as well as other important information for sheep, which will be used to drive the Adaptive Cougar Management Plan. This plan has been developed to address cougar predation on bighorn sheep for the restoration effort. As suggested by the Bighorn Species Management Guidelines, preferred ratios will be 65% ewes, 20% yearlings, and 15% medium aged rams [Classes II and III]). Approximately 22 females and 8 males (or a ratio of about 3 females to 1 male if fewer than 30 sheep are captured) will be captured. Secondary and tertiary releases of 30 sheep may be considered and deemed necessary depending on the success of the initial release, funding and availability of source sheep. If funding is available to facilitate post-release monitoring, future releases of sheep may be outfitted with GPS collars. Aerial monitoring of the transplanted animals will be conducted for a minimum of 5 years post release to monitor population trends. Big Game Wildlife Species to Benefit: Bighorn sheep 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted June 7, 2013 ThomC always some off the wall comment... you crack me up! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Becker Report post Posted June 7, 2013 Smitty there are 2 tags in 37A already, and one in 37B??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twigsnapper Report post Posted June 7, 2013 Tony, thanks for the insight. Many times we view today's issues without having some of yesterdays perspective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sidwynder505 Report post Posted June 8, 2013 Smitty there are 2 tags in 37A already, and one in 37B??? Yes, I know this Devin. I am talking more tags, my bad. This year will be the first year 37B will have a sheep tag from the reintroduction program back in 2006 and 37A can have more then two tags, hoping there could be more with a bigger population of big horns. With a dream of every southern Arizona unit to hold big horn sheep.....that's all I am trying to say, sorry.! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NRS Report post Posted June 8, 2013 Smitty there are 2 tags in 37A already, and one in 37B??? The tag in 37B is the result of a transplant program just like what is being proposed for the catalinas that was done over the last 10 years. This is a very successful program the bring the sheep back into the places they used to be in, and it is funded by the sportsmens through the big game tag funds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites