Disturbing Trend on CWT.com

[elkrack]

Some may have missed or may miss the point about oneshot's comment. It is about our hunting heritage and ensuring we have the hunters today and tomorrow to pass on that heritage.

Anyone can make their hunt restricted to any degree, that is a personal choice, let it stay that way.

 

We can manage a deer or elk herd in many different ways, having units that produce good bulls and good bucks should be one of our management goals. Having most of our units producing healthy populations that provide an opportunity for all hunters to hunt on a regular basis should also be one of our goals.

Ensuring we are providing young hunters an opportunity to develop their hunting style by hunting on a regular basis is also an important goal. we will continue to face a lot of challenges with an ever increasing population in a state with limited resources. We should work together to improve habitats ensuring wildlife a place to be in our future. Just as important is ensuring our hunting future and that means setting the example that allows non-hunters to support our choice to hunt.

[jamaro]

As an outsider looking in I think that the ban on baiting or the increase of difficulty in killing a nice deer is really going to make a difference in AZ. I think AZ hunters are in for a big surprise. Not judging just giving my thoughts...

[John O]

I wouldn't go to the extreme to call this a "Disturbing" trend. Anyone who has been on this site for some time has seen this. I think it is part of what goes with the territory, and fortunately we all have the freedom to hunt however we would prefer, within the rules G&F has established. As for me, although I have shot several deer with rifle and bow, my top trophy to date is a spike with my bow in August. Nothing to do with antler size, but the amazing circumstances which all came together that day. This is a good site, and a healthy respect for it's members and what they enjoy about hunting is a good thing.

[singleshot]

I wouldn't go to the extreme to call this a "Disturbing" trend. Anyone who has been on this site for some time has seen this. I think it is part of what goes with the territory, and fortunately we all have the freedom to hunt however we would prefer, within the rules G&F has established. As for me, although I have shot several deer with rifle and bow, my top trophy to date is a spike with my bow in August. Nothing to do with antler size, but the amazing circumstances which all came together that day. This is a good site, and a healthy respect for it's members and what they enjoy about hunting is a good thing.

 

Very well said ! Growing up my dad always told me to "knock them down as they get up and the big ones will come with the little ones". And thats what my brother and I did. A spike a forkie and every few years a "good" buck. They were all exciting, and took an amount of effort that made you feel like you had really accomplished something, which we had. We daydreamed about the monster buck, and we killed some nice bucks here and there. In 1988 I purchased my first pair of decent glass and that completely changed the playing field. Totally. It was easier to be selective and try to kill an older age classed buck.

Its similar to catch and release. When I pass a buck and some fortunate hunter takes him, I hope it creates a great memory. Now bowhunting, thats a completely different story. The close range encounter, and difficulty personally changes the bar.

As we all become more and more accepting of technology what disturbs me is the "super gun" mentality. I do shoot a 7 mag. but I also know what a 257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 250 savage or whatever caliber that was available to hunt with, along with desire, is capable of.

[Coach]

The hunt is what you make of it. If you want a trophy, go for that goal. If you want meat in the freezer, by all means, get tagged out.

 

I've been hunting AZ a very long time and I've been fortunate to have some very good opportunities. A couple of unit 1 bull tags in the rut with archery and muzzle loader, the strip, 13B rifle. Honestly, I can say the most rewarding hunts I've been on have been the specifically designated youth hunts. When you see a 10 year old get their first turkey days after they tag their first javi, it just doesn't get any better than that.

 

I fell in love with the strip last year so much I would literally consider moving to St. George, Utah just to be in such an awesome place. But it's just like where I decided to raise my family in the mountains where I grew up, leaned to play football and baseball.

 

When I die, I want my ashes scattered along the Black River. If I had to make a "last stand" it would be in the same area,

 

I probably veered off the original intent of this thread, but what I hope to convey is, hunting is something many of us hold sacred. The time out in the wild brings out the true spirit of the hunter. We can all buy meat, but what is the value of actually harvesting your own game? What price can you put on having your sons and daughters taking their fist big game animal?

 

Yeah, points matter, we all want a bigger, better buck than we have gotten before, but what matters most, IMO, is making each hunt about something special, whether it's topping your best, or pushing you into a place nobody goes, or taking a kid out on his or her first hunt, hunting is a passion, and you have it or you don't.

[couesdeerhntr]

I personally think i am a trophy hunter as much as a meat hunter. With me already waiting nine years to get drawn for a bull elk tag i know for a fact that i am going to try and shoot me the biggest elk i can find if i ever get drawn because if i do get drawn there is a chance i might not again.For coues deer i am not going to shoot me a spike buck that i will only get maybe 20 lbs of meat from it boned out when i can hold out for a bigger buck and get me over fifty pounds of meat from a mature deer. Which in turn usually mean bigger antler size. When i am rifle hunting i am always looking for the 100inch or better because for one i see way more little bucks and to me it is way more of a challange to shoot a mature old buck that had made it thru a few years and is a little smarter, And if someone is holding out for a 110 or bigger buck and not shooting any "dinks" more power to them which means they are letting young bucks grow to a mature age. Which in my eyes will then produce larger deer numbers in units and maybe allow for more harvests of larger deer. In the units i hunt i have seen tags increase and the number of bucks decrease because of the fact that there is no antler restriction and in my eyes hurts a deer herd. I Have seen an area which yes it is close to a road but always use to hold bucks go from seeing five to six bucks a morning from spikes to mature bucks to not seeing one buck and only does and the only time i will see a buck in there is during the rut in january and he would be pushing one deer with fifteen other does in the area with no other bucks to be found for the whole season. And in arizona u are allowed one deer per calander deer and to be a meat hunter for a coues deer is a joke. Its not like we have a multiple deer a year season so why not try and find the biggest and badest deer you can find which should give u the most meat. In my eyes living in arizona and hunting big game here makes you a trophy hunter due to the draw system and limited hunt opportunites for big game and us having smaller deer herds than other states. Just my two cents.

[couesdeerhntr]

And i thinks every government operation is there to make money so we will always have the special trophy tags which are auctioned to the higest bidder and or raffled off

[couesmagnet]

What people don't realize is that trophy hunters success rates in the field are way lower than a non trophy hunter. By letting go so many animals as the hunt goes on instead of harvesting one just to harvest one is allowing a whole bunch of animals to live another year. If most people think there's to many tags now, just try to imagine if there wasn't all those nasty trophy hunters around and everyone's gun was going off the first 2 days. Success rates on all hunts would shoot thru the roof and the g and f would have to do drastic tag reductions on all hunts to compensate for the "new " success rates without trophy hunters. All non trophy hunters would immediately see less game that fits their criteria, cause the 3 trophy hunters that would have normally "passed" on these animals shot them instead opening morning. When a trophy hunter sets a personal bench mark, that's a personal call made from within. I can't speak for other trophy hunters, but for me, trophy hunting allows me to spend more time in the field doing what i love,hunting. Instead of being done early in the hunt, and going home to unpack and take care of the meat, i get to stay longer and enjoy the forest for a couple days more and probably eat a large bowl of tag soup at the end. Remember by eating the tag soup, i have just increased the non trophy hunters odds of seeing an extra deer the next year..... I hope i can get to a day when i am passing 390 bulls and 120 inch coues deer personally, and eating tag soup almost every time i go. It's not about killing any deer of any size that makes a hunt fun or successful, it's the thrill of chase only for me. I can't tell you how many non trophy hunters walk into the field thinking they have to get a deer no matter what, so they can say they just got one to their friends. That's not hunting for yourself either. What's wrong with a guy having certain score benchmarks, and how is this affecting the next guy with lower or higher benchmarks. The answer is it isn't affecting either unless one of the 2 people is paying attention to the others hunt to much instead of his own. I've thought of giving up hunting a few times along the way, and just picking up a camera with crosshairs in the lens and a rangefinder built in. Until then i'll just keep raising the minimum scores i'm willing to shoot until it's pointless even carrying a rifle or having a tag...... In summary next time your in the field look around at the game your hunting and subtract at least 20 percent of it, with out trophy hunters being in the mix. Next time you look in the regs for how many tags are in your favorite unit, thank trophy hunters, cause with out them those tag numbers would be a lot lower... The real answer is to hunt for yourselves, and quit paying so much attention to other people's hunts. That's the real problem with what's happening on this site. Just hunt for yourselves, whether that's for a velvet spike or a 130 incher, who cares. The minute you start caring what everyone else is doing is when things tend to get weird. Hunt for yourself, shoot for yourself, and things will all work out.

[krp]

The reality is you can add tags to coues hunt units and there will be within + or - a negligible effect on harvest numbers. Success odds with go down as the same amount of deer are taken by a larger number of hunters.

 

Why? Because there are only a set number of bucks within the average hunters radius from roads or access points. The bucks harvested from that radius will happen whether it's 500 hunters or 1000.

 

The old saying of 90% of animals are taken by 10% of hunters plays into the equation... there are no more 10%ers being added, they already have tags.

 

It's a little different with elk... someone waiting for a tag, finally getting one... has very little chance of success by themselves. But most know a 10%er that wants to go out and get them on an elk.

 

The two main issues for animal numbers are groceries and predation. Can't do much about groceries but predation you can. Kill a lion and you just saved about 30 to 50 deer.

 

Predation control primarily happens in the same radius. The issues with backcountry hunting aren't other hunters, I have only once seen another hunter in my backpacking areas. There are a bunch of lions.

 

If you want to improve your trophy succes, invest the time patterning year to year and predator control... the average once a year weekend hunter is not your competiton.

 

Kent

[azslim]

only natural, when people first start hunting any tag filler will do, as they get better and their skills improve they go for bragging rights, then when they reach the age to start passing on the tradition they go back to enjoying the hunt through the eyes of the newbies. A few will put themselves on pedestals and feel they must preach and brag about how good they are and belittle folks that don't feel the same way. Age will get them, it gets us all.

[couesmagnet]

I think the far more disturbing trend on this site revolves around not being able to say your opinion without having to defend yourself against personal attacks. If a guy is for antler restrictions, he's selfish to some. If a guy is ok with higher tag prices, he's selfish to some. If a guy wants to shoot long range with his rifle, or hunt over bait with a bow, he's cheating to some. If a guy buys a gov. tag , he's cheating to some. If a guy hires a guide, he's cheating to some. If a guy wants to pass certain animals based on any criteria, he's being cocky. If a guy road hunts, or doesn't do some marathon hike from the truck, he's not trying hard enough. I know i'm missing several prime examples of other things that are bad to some, but i think you get the point. When will it be ok again to say what you feel or think, or hunt like you want too and it be ok. this whole post of the disturbing trends named in the original post is a perfect example of not being able to state your opinion. Why is this so disturbing, the only reason those opinions of others is disturbing is because you don't agree with their opinions and nothing more. are the people that had those opinions that disturbing, when they are just their opinions. What's more disturbing, having an opinion wrong or right, or not being able to have an opinion at all!!! Like i said just pay attention to your hunt and how you hunt and everyone else can take care of themselves. How simple is that.

[Antmo23]

I think the far more disturbing trend on this site revolves around not being able to say your opinion without having to defend yourself against personal attacks. If a guy is for antler restrictions, he's selfish to some. If a guy is ok with higher tag prices, he's selfish to some. If a guy wants to shoot long range with his rifle, or hunt over bait with a bow, he's cheating to some. If a guy buys a gov. tag , he's cheating to some. If a guy hires a guide, he's cheating to some. If a guy wants to pass certain animals based on any criteria, he's being cocky. If a guy road hunts, or doesn't do some marathon hike from the truck, he's not trying hard enough. I know i'm missing several prime examples of other things that are bad to some, but i think you get the point. When will it be ok again to say what you feel or think, or hunt like you want too and it be ok. this whole post of the disturbing trends named in the original post is a perfect example of not being able to state your opinion. Why is this so disturbing, the only reason those opinions of others is disturbing is because you don't agree with their opinions and nothing more. are the people that had those opinions that disturbing, when they are just their opinions. What's more disturbing, having an opinion wrong or right, or not being able to have an opinion at all!!! Like i said just pay attention to your hunt and how you hunt and everyone else can take care of themselves. How simple is that.

 

 

Well said.

[John O]

I think the far more disturbing trend on this site revolves around not being able to say your opinion without having to defend yourself against personal attacks. If a guy is for antler restrictions, he's selfish to some. If a guy is ok with higher tag prices, he's selfish to some. If a guy wants to shoot long range with his rifle, or hunt over bait with a bow, he's cheating to some. If a guy buys a gov. tag , he's cheating to some. If a guy hires a guide, he's cheating to some. If a guy wants to pass certain animals based on any criteria, he's being cocky. If a guy road hunts, or doesn't do some marathon hike from the truck, he's not trying hard enough. I know i'm missing several prime examples of other things that are bad to some, but i think you get the point. When will it be ok again to say what you feel or think, or hunt like you want too and it be ok. this whole post of the disturbing trends named in the original post is a perfect example of not being able to state your opinion. Why is this so disturbing, the only reason those opinions of others is disturbing is because you don't agree with their opinions and nothing more. are the people that had those opinions that disturbing, when they are just their opinions. What's more disturbing, having an opinion wrong or right, or not being able to have an opinion at all!!! Like i said just pay attention to your hunt and how you hunt and everyone else can take care of themselves. How simple is that.

 

Well said.

+1 Amen Brother!!!

[couesdeerhntr]

Couesmagnet i have to agree i posted to this because it did bother me a bit. I see all the time posts about road hunting and people getting bashed for other reasons and really it is all about how u want to hunt and that should be all its about. I love this site for the information and being able to post your success stories. And seeing what other people encounter. I love that. And to be honest i love to see the huge coues deer that people shoot or post pics of.it keeps my adrenaline going and gets me reeady for my next hunt. It sucks to have so much negativity to others on how they hunt. From long range to road hunting to baiting and any other reason for others to disagree. I feel we are all on here for one reason and it is to share the experience and enjoy other peoples success thru hunting and to share the love of outdoors and that should be it. And i have to admit i am always a little jelious of others on there success and it keeps me going out so i can experience the same thing because i love hunting and i want to be the best at it i can be. This is why i love this site.

[couesmagnet]

Heading out this morning to go on my first buffalo hunt. Going to the good ole kaibab. I dont have any idea what i'm doing, and don't know what to even look for. I hope my buddy who has the tag can teach this first time slow learner a few tricks. I love hunting, and so does everyone else on this site, so lets all try to enjoy it a little more next year together. I can't wait to learn a bunch more stuff from all you guys and your posts about your own hunts.