do all bucks get big with age

[couesmagnet]

I was talking with some other hard core coues deer hunters and wondered what other people thought. My question is how many bucks if allowed to mature to maximum antler potential will eventually get to the magic 110 mark. I don't know how many times i've seen a buck in my binos scouting that would go in the mid 100's, and turn to my brother to say , "i'll bet he's going to get really big in the next 2 years". I know it all boils down to genes and age, but how many deer would really end up over 110. We have shot several deer that we watched for multiple years, that never got over 110, but instead were heavy 105- 107 inchers, and that's all they were going to max out at. I shot a deer last year that the year before was 108, and he went 116.5 this year. We watched another deer in 2005 that went from a 110 incher to a 130 incher when we killed him. It's been my experience that less than half of the coues deer even have the genes to go beyond the 110 mark. I helped a kid shoot a verified 7 year old buck last year also , and the deer barely went over 100. What do you guys think the percentage of bucks in az that if allowed to mature would go over 110?

[Eagle Eye]

I think it depends on genes and rainfall. You pretty much answered your own question tho lol

[couesmagnet]

I think it depends on genes and rainfall. You pretty much answered your own question tho lol

I did give what i thought, but what do you think the percentage is? The question is what percentage of bucks do you think will eventually go over 110.

[Eagle Eye]

I got no idea on percentage. I wish it was high cuz I've only seen a handful over the 110 Mark

[Outdoor Writer]

I think it depends on genes and rainfall. You pretty much answered your own question tho lol

I did give what i thought, but what do you think the percentage is? The question is what percentage of bucks do you think will eventually go over 110.

 

7.87%

[hunter72]

I think you said it about the rain and food.If we got two or more good years of rain it would make a big buck huge.

[Coues Sniper]

My guess is it's far less than half. Really big deer are just freaks. You're looking for a Shaquile O'Neil of the Coues variety.

[couesmagnet]

Let me rephrase the question. All things being equal (water ,feed,ect) from one year to the next, do you guys think that if allowed to mature very many bucks would even have a chance of going beyond 110. I've stood with to many people looking at low 100's deer, and we all seem to think that these low 100 inch deer are going to get bigger the next year. My answer as of late is probably not. I think a lot of the deer all of us are looking at that are over a 100 , are going to stay right there over their whole lives. Very few deer we see that are over a 100 will ever get bigger than 110.

[jamaro]

A 100 deer is like a 360ish elk(i didn't' do the math), would you pass a 360 ish elk?

[gotcoues]

I have a coues deer deer on camera for 5 consecutive years. I have him in velvet for the first 4 and hard horned in the the last two years including this year. He has changed very little if at all. I guessed him as high as 110 in velvet which I think was too high. Hard horned he looks to be right over the 100" mark.

 

He is a great example of a buck that will never quite be 110.

 

2009

 

He is the only buck I have successfully gotten on camera for that many years in a row that I know of for sure.

 

I believe most bucks could reach the 100" mark if left alone, but don't really have a guess on how many would gross 110.

 

 

[couesmagnet]

Every 100 inch deer i see gets me excited, and looking at one is always a pleasure. Every 350ish bull also gets me cranked up like the 100 inch coues deer does. That being said i would almost always pass any bull under 365 or so, or any deer under 107. I say this cause we already have 10 or so deer sitting in the garage over 110 unmounted, and at least 5 bulls over 370 unmounted. I feel like we will never catch up on the taxidermy side of things, so why shoot anymore unless they are really really special. I would rather admire them in the binos, and dream about the next year hunting them. It's always a double edged sword with regards to harvesting any animal, cause watching them alive is half the fun!!! Now archery coues deer is a whole diff. story, cause i haven't been very successful at it yet.

[Becker]

I think we all hope that they are going to get bigger. I am always thinking the same thing. "I wonder what he will be next year." As always age and genetics are the major requirements when talking about big deer. Since we can't really control genetics lets talk about age. Will all old deer have big antlers? No. But big antlers generally mean an older deer. The key that I am looking at is what is that age. What is the age you need to get a deer that would make the 110 mark. My father has been sending the teeth away to get the age of the deer we have been taking over the last couple of years. I have three deer for example because I cant remember any of the others off the top of my head. These are all gross scores. First one is a deer my father shot that was 112 gross deer, he was aged at 6 years old. The deer I shot this last october was 127, aged at 5. and my mother shot a deer that grossed 118 that was aged at 4 years old. In this case, the oldest deer was indeed the smallest. Why? Most likely genetics. Another factor, the 112 had a bad infected tooth that had actually caused deformation in his jaw bone. My guess is thats why he remained the same antler size in the 2 years that I had watched him. The question I have is what would the other two bucks have been in two or three years???? Bigger, smaller, heavier? Obviously they had some awesome genetics. BUT I don't know. Based on my experience and some of these known aged deer my early on thought is that you need a deer at least 4 years old to get up there to your WANTED 110 INCHES. But not every 4 year old will make and there are 3 year old deer that would make the cut but they are genetically superior. Its really a deer specific question in my mind. I have never encountered a study where they have actually looked at how many deer in a given population would grow a specific size of antlers. Could be one out there though.

 

Another thing on Coues that I have noticed, is drought years vs non drought years. I don't see a huge difference in antler growth. More so I see differences in antler densities. Drought years they seem like they are made of balsa wood where in real wet years they seem like they are made out of lead. I am sure that it affects growth somewhat but not near the affect as say elk.

 

Now lets address what I think is the major issue here when talking about antler size in Arizona. TAG NUMBERS. I know that Arizona has the potential to produce huge deer. It is proven. The problem is that majority of the deer don't ever get old enough to get there. Say your given three year old deer is 90 to 105 gross inches. I would say 90% maybe even more of coues deer hunters would shoot. Take one southern unit as an example. 3 general hunts (not including trophy and youth hunts), 600 to 700 tags, thats potentially 1800 to 2100 deer. Granted not everyone is successful but thats 1800 to 2100 hunters out there looking. What are the odds of a deer being able to reach the age of 4 or 5. Thats 4 or 5 years of slipping through the cracks of a minimum of 7200 hunters over those years. THEY JUST DONT MAKE IT!!! And not harping on anybody, but how many times do you hear, "Well didn't find the big one, this was a last day buck." People want to be successful and they want to shoot a deer. No fault in that, but when you start shooting the two and three year olds, it throws back the age class even farther.

 

Mexico is the prime example of what we could potentially have. Given the right genetics, ranches down there consistently year to year produce huge bucks. WHY??? They only shoot a few deer out of the population each year. The hunters are in all reality trophy hunting so they are holding out for the highest age class. The deer are able to hit the 5 to 8 year old age classes. And not every deer in Mexico is 120+. They are not crawling under every tree BUT, Odds are way better to encounter one down there simply because of the numbers of older age classed deer.

 

I think we would be extremely amazed at what our deer herd would look like if we did not hunt it for 5 or 8 years. Will every buck get huge NO, but obviously the more deer we have getting to the higher age classes, the more potential you would get for a monster. Now if we went that route here in Arizona, hardly anyone would get to hunt. So its a catch 22 I guess. And I know all this has been said before over the years but I had some free time to type away.

 

My 2 cents on big deer.

[couesmagnet]

Gotcoues, i really like that buck you posted, and thanks for a prime example. Becker very well said and i agree with drought not affecting coues deer that much. I also agree with the tag numbers being at least 25 percent to high in the southern units. Thanks for your reply, i like listening to what fellow hunters have to say.

[kwp]

Very well said on all aspects Devin!

[Ernesto C]

A 100 deer is like a 360ish elk(i didn't' do the math), would you pass a 360 ish elk?

I don't know about elk....but you'll be surprised by the amount of hunters that would pass on a 100 inch buck!

 

Ernesto C