The defination of a "Premium Hunt"

[ThomC]

I think that the defination should be : Pick a couple of popular units with a good population of Bucks/ Bulls and cut the permits to half of what they would normally be. In the case of Elk eliminate cow hunters and in the case of Deer eliminate archery hunters, in that unit during the premium hunt. Lets say 1 archery Elk unit, 1 rifle Elk unit, 1 muzzy Elk unit, 1 Dec. whitetail unit, 1 Dec. Mule Deer unit. per year. Units would change every year. Units above the ditch would have a 1Deer Premium hunt for 1 week per year at prime time.

[mpriest]

Good idea but I think you would get a lot more unhappy hundres because of the big cut in tags

[krp]

There is no biological reason for a premium hunt... this was confirmed by G&F at the Mesa meeting.

 

Changing the biology in units, even on a rotating platform, just to accomodate a minority of hunters... isn't sound management.

 

We already have 'alternative managment units' I don't know what the term is off the top of my head... units that are managed for quality over quantity.

 

There was a suggestion at the mesa meeting of having a habitat stamp for those units, same as the kaibab now... worth thinking about.

 

The premium structure is all political and zero biological... it clashes with the NAM that the G&F tout in their 7 point core concept... especially 3 and 4...

 

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/documents/NAM%20Brochure.pdf

 

Hunting and Angling Laws are Created
Through Public Process
Hunting seasons, harvest limits and penalties imposed
for violations are established through laws and regulations.
Everyone has the opportunity to shape the laws
and regulations applied in wildlife conservation.

Hunting and Angling Opportunity for All
Opportunity to participate in hunting, angling and
wildlife conservation is guaranteed for all in good
standing, not by social status or privilege, financial
capacity or land ownership. This concept ensures
a broad base of financial support and advocacy for
research, monitoring, habitat conservation and law
enforcement.

 

We need to offer alternatives instead of just saying no to the premium proposal and the obvious is the the best. About 4500 premium elk tags at 55.00 extra or 10.00 across the board of 24,000 total elk tags equal the same... or increase the cow tags the same as bull.

 

Deer there would be 3200 premium at 55.00 extra... a couple of bucks across the board would generate that.

 

Elk right now is 121.00 with app fee... it would be 158.00 conceptional

 

Deer now is 42.00 with app fee... 58.00 conceptional

 

These increases seem steep but with the added app fee to all applications it would generate millions... the premium designation would only create 400,000 and cause all kinds of polorization of hunters and confict in the field... it also will put another wrinkle in the draw system that is already experiencing 'unintended' consequences with the 20% pass.

 

All for a decmial point in the overall budget percentage.

 

Kent

[kwp]

Changing the biology in units, even on a rotating platform, just to accomodate a minority of hunters... isn't sound management.

 

Changing the biology of unit(s) even to accomodate a supposed majority of hunters isn't sound management either. It's pretty clear that biological factors are not the only thing AZGFD is considering when managing game. Is the addtion of another hunt along with the steady increases in tags good management? No, but it provides more "hunter opportunity".

 

Everyones definition of a "premium hunt" is going to be different. For me it involves a number of things, not necessarily in any order; 1-time of year, typically rut hunts are better than non rut. 2-Having less hunters in the field to compete with. 3-Being able to hunt animals that aren't over pressured by hunt after hunt after hunt. 4-A unit with trophy genetics (pretty much every unit in AZ has trophy coues genetics).

 

Personally I feel like the December Coues hunts are less "premium" hunts than they used to be primarily due to #3. I don't have any scientific data to proove it but in my experience I have seen a steady decrease in the buck:doe ratio and I question if the harvest numbers are sustainable.

[Jcubed]

There is no biological reason for a premium hunt... this was confirmed by G&F at the Mesa meeting.

 

Changing the biology in units, even on a rotating platform, just to accomodate a minority of hunters... isn't sound management.

 

We already have 'alternative managment units' I don't know what the term is off the top of my head... units that are managed for quality over quantity.

 

There was a suggestion at the mesa meeting of having a habitat stamp for those units, same as the kaibab now... worth thinking about.

 

The premium structure is all political and zero biological... it clashes with the NAM that the G&F tout in their 7 point core concept... especially 3 and 4...

 

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/documents/NAM%20Brochure.pdf

 

Hunting and Angling Laws are Created

Through Public Process

Hunting seasons, harvest limits and penalties imposed

for violations are established through laws and regulations.

Everyone has the opportunity to shape the laws

and regulations applied in wildlife conservation.

 

Hunting and Angling Opportunity for All

Opportunity to participate in hunting, angling and

wildlife conservation is guaranteed for all in good

standing, not by social status or privilege, financial

capacity or land ownership. This concept ensures

a broad base of financial support and advocacy for

research, monitoring, habitat conservation and law

enforcement.

 

We need to offer alternatives instead of just saying no to the premium proposal and the obvious is the the best. About 4500 premium elk tags at 55.00 extra or 10.00 across the board of 24,000 total elk tags equal the same... or increase the cow tags the same as bull.

 

Deer there would be 3200 premium at 55.00 extra... a couple of bucks across the board would generate that.

 

Elk right now is 121.00 with app fee... it would be 158.00 conceptional

 

Deer now is 42.00 with app fee... 58.00 conceptional

 

These increases seem steep but with the added app fee to all applications it would generate millions... the premium designation would only create 400,000 and cause all kinds of polorization of hunters and confict in the field... it also will put another wrinkle in the draw system that is already experiencing 'unintended' consequences with the 20% pass.

 

All for a decmial point in the overall budget percentage.

 

Kent

 

 

This is about as good as I have heard on the issue

[Big Browns]

A premium hunt to me is a Hunt with less pressure and animals that have not been hunted a lot. Unfortunately we dont have any premium hunts in AZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ernesto C]

PREMIUM HUNT - A hunt where a hunter is practically guaranteed to harvest a 110+ Coues deer. A 190+ Mule deer and 370+ Bull elk.

 

Ernesto C

[AZ8]

Well said Kent!

 

[javihammer]

+1 Kent.....Last I checked every single elk tag is sold at full price currently. I would rather see all 24,000 elk tags go up around 10-15 bucks and let people continue to pay the difference in TIME. That would provide far more value to hunters than creating a premium structure.

 

One more thought. I noticed the powerpoint presentation showed that Utah had nearly three times the number of elk tags than Arizona does. I checked this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population and discovered that Utah has less than half the population of people than Arizona does. My back of the envelope math shows Utah has a 6:1 advantage in terms of tags to people. Even if a premium structure had merit, using Utah as a basis for comparison is completely wrong. Arizona has low quantity and good quality, to strip the quality from the overall tag pool is not giving Arizona hunters a fair shake.

 

Ryan

[ForkHorn]

I completely agree with Kent.

[Swivelhead]

Premium Hunt: Early archery bull without cow hunters traipsing through the woods on their semi-annual cow hunt.

 

I don't have a problem with the premium tag pricing structure. It's not like you'd be paying it every year. I've got 21 points for lope, do you really think I care how much the tag is going to eventually cost?

 

G&F rates have been steady for many years. Dollar is not worth much, G&F needs more money.

 

Wildlife is the property of the state, don't you think we should get top dollar for our wildlife? We are lucky the tags are a lottery and not sealed bid.

 

Ante up!

[AZ8]

Premium Hunt: Early archery bull without cow hunters traipsing through the woods on their semi-annual cow hunt.I don't have a problem with the premium tag pricing structure. It's not like you'd be paying it every year. I've got 21 points for lope, do you really think I care how much the tag is going to eventually cost?G&F rates have been steady for many years. Dollar is not worth much, G&F needs more money.Wildlife is the property of the state, don't you think we should get top dollar for our wildlife? We are lucky the tags are a lottery and not sealed bid.Ante up!

 

And that sums up the Premium Hunt problem: pitting one hunter against another. That cow hunter has just as much right to be out in the woods as the Premium bull hunter.

 

Do we really want to divide the hunting community like this?

 

 

[Sneaker]

I say "stick it to the man" by jacking up non-res tag fees and leave residents' lower. These proposed fee changes result in the following: Residents would need to pay 300% more for a premium deer tag than a res general tag while non-residents only have to pay 66% more for a premium tag than a non-resident general tag. Residents pay the taxes, fund and complete wildlife management projects, and collectively as a state own the wildlife, let the non-residents make up the shortfalls if they want to come hunt our great state.

[6ANut]

A trophy animal for me is more about the memory and the experience than the amount of bone on the ground. My last spike I killed I would have payed top $$$$ for because of the emotional meaning behind it. I'm sure some of you fathers or mothers would pay any amount to see your young one connect with any big game animal.

Wish the game and fish would start a program where the youth could earn free tags by donating time in the wild, clean up, water holes etc...

[GotBowAz]

I guess maybe I see things a little differently than the average Joe. No offence to any Joe’s out there. Everyone has a different interpretation of premium hunts I’m sure. I guess I like everything the hard way as for me it “IS” about the pressure, out smarting the pressure/hunters and the challenge of out witting my quarry. In other words it’s about the hunt and what I put into it more than going out a dropping a good/trophy unpressured animal I found out at 300 yards. Not that I'm saying anything is wrong with that, I just would not be as satisfied with the hunt.

 

My last bull in 2010 was taken after the 8^th day of the season with tons of cow and bull hunters chasing animals all over the creation. It took me the evening of the 7^th day to figure out how to get within bow range of these hot and heavy pressured animals. He isn’t a monster but that hunt was and still is the most rewarding hunt I had ever been on. I did see and pursue much better bulls and I passed up a bunch of lesser bulls but I wouldn’t trade the outcome of that hunt for a non pressured 370 bull. One last note is I spent a lot of time in the field and saw and chased some true monsters I might not have seen if I had the opportunity to kill an unpressured bull on the first day of the hunt. Over all, to me, it was a premium hunt.

 

GBA