'Simplified' Fees by AZGFD

[1uglydude]

1. Either way it really doesn't matter. Tax payer money is going at AZGFD!

 

No, it doesn't. Tag and license money gets taken to the general fund to pay for other state services, but the money doesn't move the other way.

Feel free to review the attached document. You will find several examples of tax money going to the AZGFD. As with many other things, the AZGFD would prefer the average person not know that they do receive tax dollars. So, like politicians they make cleaver statements like "The Arizona Game and Fish Department does not receive general funds from the State of Arizona. But here are a couple of examples from the attached document:

Source of Revenue: Monies received through intergovernmental and interagency service agreements.

Source of Revenue: Collections from local governments for the Urban Fishing Program, transfers from the state Risk Management Fund, proceeds from the charitable auction of bighorn sheep tags, and private donations from private contributors.

fis(1).pdf

 

Before the recession (i.e. 2007) the Legislature made attempts to pay back some portion of what they would sweep in prior years. It was never the full amount. And, in 2008, the Legislature swept more than $7.8million from the Department. You're good with percentages, so I'll let you figure out what impact that had on their $30M budget.

 

So, would yousay that if Peter steals $10 from Paul, and then later pays Paul $5 that Paul is now operating on $5 of Peter's money?

 

Here's a 2006 FAQ from the last price increase that lays out the budget challenges the Department must meet. Note the discussion of retirement costs--those are even higher now, and the Department doesn't get any help from taxpayers on that. http://www.azgfd.gov/temp/fee_increase.shtml

[rossislider]

1. Either way it really doesn't matter. Tax payer money is going at AZGFD!

 

No, it doesn't. Tag and license money gets taken to the general fund to pay for other state services, but the money doesn't move the other way.

Feel free to review the attached document. You will find several examples of tax money going to the AZGFD. As with many other things, the AZGFD would prefer the average person not know that they do receive tax dollars. So, like politicians they make cleaver statements like "The Arizona Game and Fish Department does not receive general funds from the State of Arizona. But here are a couple of examples from the attached document:

Source of Revenue: Monies received through intergovernmental and interagency service agreements.

Source of Revenue: Collections from local governments for the Urban Fishing Program, transfers from the state Risk Management Fund, proceeds from the charitable auction of bighorn sheep tags, and private donations from private contributors.

fis(1).pdf

 

Before the recession (i.e. 2007) the Legislature made attempts to pay back some portion of what they would sweep in prior years. It was never the full amount. And, in 2008, the Legislature swept more than $7.8million from the Department. You're good with percentages, so I'll let you figure out what impact that had on their $30M budget.

 

So, would yousay that if Peter steals $10 from Paul, and then later pays Paul $5 that Paul is now operating on $5 of Peter's money?

 

Here's a 2006 FAQ from the last price increase that lays out the budget challenges the Department must meet. Note the discussion of retirement costs--those are even higher now, and the Department doesn't get any help from taxpayers on that. http://www.azgfd.gov/temp/fee_increase.shtml

Sorry 1uglydude, you seem like a good guy but if you won't see the forest through the trees there is nothing I can say that will convince you. I imagine I probably agree with you on 99.9% of every other issue but on this one I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.

[huntjunkie]

Lets see if we can get 10 quotes, quoting a quote, quoting a quote. Man I'm confused.... 😂

[ready2hunt]

I just saved 15% on my car insurance by switching to Geico

 

 

 

 

 

It has been a min. since someone posted here...getting bored

[Dan H]

Everyone quit copying all the white pages on here and e-mail them to AZGFD link instead.

 

Most importantly go to one of the meetings to express your concern.

 

I will be at the meeting with half a dozen others in Payson on the 29th and will post the outcome of discussion.

 

Beer thirty? Time to go party in the parking lot at Talking Sticks in the motorhome for the Robert Cray show tonite.

[azslim]

while I know they could care less I did send an email telling them I felt they were turning hunting into a rich man/poor deal and that every resident should have an opportunity to hunt during a prime season, not just the ones with deep pockets.

 

rather than piss and moan among each other I challenge all of you to do the same, let AZGFD know your feelings, maybe if they hear from enough of us it will have an impact, doubt it but at least we tried

 

LicenseSimplification@azgfd.gov

[Str8Shot]

My confusion now comes via one of this sites sponsors GO ... who just posted this on Facebook "

"A few months ago the AZGFD sent a representative to Gila Outdoor to discuss/ask for public support to "simplify" the license structure and process. It passed and was signed into law. Take a look at what the "simplification" means.

What are your thoughts on a tiered permit structure for deer and elk? " I am not going to assume that these changes are directly related to input from GO but the wording almost seems to imply and suggest possible input and support.

if GO was involved in this process that long ago, I am wondering what other outlets such as organizations, and outfitters were brought on board in the forms of giving insight into this change.

 

I can see this being a win win for outfitters as well as those of higher income as a means to try to put limits on less fortunate hunters with less means.

[Hunterjohnny]

Conscientious Objector

That will be my new title, sounds better than poacher!

[SWDesertRat]

In my humble opinion, 9 out of 10 hunters who hunt in Az would scream bloody murder at a proposed $2.00 tag fee increase per species.

It is also my opinion that most of us are arm chair qb's or satellite bulls that scream their heads off online but never step up to challenge the herd bull and that when the time comes simply dont put their money where their mouth is and voice their opinion. If the Azgfd is going to use any information about tag fee increases, it would be best to give them constructive information that they can use about what you think is reasonable fee increase or not instead of 'you money grubbing jerks' .

It is also my humble opinion that its a user play user pay system. Yah need to pay for it if you want to hunt it or buy a point for it or complain about it.

I have yet to decide what I like or dislike about the current proposed fee structure, you can be sure I'll share my opinion with the azgfd in a clear, constructive manner that provides them information they can use when I do make up my mind.

[ForkHorn]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the last time there was an increase, and how much it was?

[AZ8]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know the last time there was an increase, and how much it was?

2007

 

Elk went from 78 to 114

[coues krazy]

I put in all over the west each year just wishing to get drawn anywhere i can. In new mexico for instance i put close to 800 dollars on the line each year to get drawn for elk. I consider paying anything under 500 a real bargain to go elk hunting in any state including mine, and i hope that the tag price increases will decrease the number of applicants. I don't have a lot of money either so this isn't some kind of rich guy poor guy thing, so i hope this doesn't get twisted around on me by someone else. It's to hard to get drawn as it is , so higher prices tend to weed out some people from putting in including their grandmother's second cousin who married uncle bart so they can go for a couple of days. I hope there is a tag price increase every other year or so, just to curb the numbers off applicants if anything.

Boooooo. Cant believe anyone would be for uping prices..... Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[4Falls]

Well, looks like it may be time to switch to small game and bird hunting.

[javihammer]

I wouldnt give up so easy. These fees are conceptual and really lack any basis in logic. If AZGFD needs more money they can raise fees on all tags rather than try to separate hunters into classes. Before these changes take place the department must show that they have properly solicited the thoughts of all hunters, not just input from a handful of critter group board members (that guide on the side). AZGFD has a website, they should provide a link to a survey so all hunters can provide input.

 

Some survey questions could include.....Would you be willing to see all tags go up a little $30-40 or see the very best tags go up $80 and others go for $20 more? Do you agree with Arizona hunters having to identify as either trophy or general hunters? Would you be willing to pay a little more for all tags instead of having the best tags pulled into separate buckets that provide more opportunity to those with greater financial resources?

 

With the stuff that happened last year with AZSFW and auction tags, the recent story about the officer that let his elk be tagged while he was away, and the Husted story, it is vital that the commission proceed cautiously in order to maintain credibility. The commision would be foolish to believe that hunters in Arizona would sit idley by while four guys change the culture in Arizona by allowing hunters to be split into trophy classes by species. The only State that actively does this crap is Utah, and Utah is kind of the joke of the West with how biased they are toward hunters with money.

 

I could write a couple pages about issues with the powerpoint presentation but the funniest part is how most of the higher costs are related to fishing but the cost for fishing privileges are being reduced in most cases. It almost seems like someone is trying to create a shortfall on one side in order to justify price increases on the other (hunting) side.

 

I recomend others send their thoughts into AZGFD on this issue or attend the meeting on Monday.

[BigMoqui]

I put in all over the west each year just wishing to get drawn anywhere i can. In new mexico for instance i put close to 800 dollars on the line each year to get drawn for elk. I consider paying anything under 500 a real bargain to go elk hunting in any state including mine, and i hope that the tag price increases will decrease the number of applicants. I don't have a lot of money either so this isn't some kind of rich guy poor guy thing, so i hope this doesn't get twisted around on me by someone else. It's to hard to get drawn as it is , so higher prices tend to weed out some people from putting in including their grandmother's second cousin who married uncle bart so they can go for a couple of days. I hope there is a tag price increase every other year or so, just to curb the numbers off applicants if anything.

You' re contradicting yourself a little here. First off I see that you are now living with your father so this might be why your willing to pay $500 for an elk tag. Secondly ask a poor man that likes to hunt if he can afford or would be willing to pay $500 for a tag. Your theory about less people putting in because the tags are more is out the door because the only thing that would probably cause this is if they have to front the money like we did on the paper app. Lastly it is becoming a rich mans sport in more ways then one but your wealthier individuals would be the ones in the past that put their grandmothers and their neighbor because they could afford to. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I respect yours. I have up on the G&F when they changed all the hunts several years ago to increase their tags by offering crappy hunts with hundreds of tags.

 

 

I put in all over the west each year just wishing to get drawn anywhere i can. In new mexico for instance i put close to 800 dollars on the line each year to get drawn for elk. I consider paying anything under 500 a real bargain to go elk hunting in any state including mine, and i hope that the tag price increases will decrease the number of applicants. I don't have a lot of money either so this isn't some kind of rich guy poor guy thing, so i hope this doesn't get twisted around on me by someone else. It's to hard to get drawn as it is , so higher prices tend to weed out some people from putting in including their grandmother's second cousin who married uncle bart so they can go for a couple of days. I hope there is a tag price increase every other year or so, just to curb the numbers off applicants if anything.

You' re contradicting yourself a little here. First off I see that you are now living with your father so this might be why your willing to pay $500 for an elk tag. Secondly ask a poor man that likes to hunt if he can afford or would be willing to pay $500 for a tag. Your theory about less people putting in because the tags are more is out the door because the only thing that would probably cause this is if they have to front the money like we did on the paper app. Lastly it is becoming a rich mans sport in more ways then one but your wealthier individuals would be the ones in the past that put their grandmothers and their neighbor because they could afford to. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I respect yours. I have up on the G&F when they changed all the hunts several years ago to increase their tags by offering crappy hunts with hundreds of tags.

This is exactly what I thought about when this started coming down the pipe. The hunt structure/ opportunity deal and how much that increased the G$F revenue at the expense of the average hunter. And to say that you would like to weed out hunters based on economic position, well I'm no commi socialist but that's pretty sad. And Casey..... that is one thing I have to agree with about LMAO.