Dirty tactics once again from the AZGFD! Now you'll know why to never trust them

[bonecollector777]

Bc777 I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you! Wagner did not ask them to kill his bull! They all agreed it was a fatal shot and he simply asked them if they found it the next morning to put his tag on it and get the meat to the processor . However when Mr Clay decide to empty his quiver on this bull it should have been his tag placed in the animal and not Wagners . I agree that If it were you or I we would be revoked ! So here is what im thinking! You have a 23 N hunt in Sept so i well shoot your Bull for you like Mr Clay did Mr wagners . Sorry I can't pay you 100k like the dept paid I actually work for my money so it harder to let it go. I think the dept should trade the quail logo on the side of there trucks for a clown logo ! It seems to be a much better fit!

Nobull, I am not saying that Wagner asked them to shoot the bull. I am saying that Wagner had no right to leave his tag with someone else so they could tag it when he didn't know if his bull was dead. He knows he can't leave his tag with someone in hopes the his bull "happened" to die. I do agree that Wagner wasn't at nearly as much fault as Ken Clay and the rest of them because once Wagner left he had no say into what happened to the bull after this. My point about Wagner is he should have never given his tag over to someone else hoping that his bull had died. He needs to be 100% sure his elk is dead before giving his tag to anyone to tag it. In the end Ken Clay Jr. who tagged the elk with Wagners tag, Ken Clay III who killed the elk brutally, and all others who were present at the time were at most fault.

Then all of the other directors, and wildlife managers who found out about the situation later should all be punished for trying to "do things their way" and "not wanting to play by the rules" as they stated in the papers. It's amazing to me that all of those high up AZGFD employees knew about the illegal activity, justified it, decided to investigate at a much later date, screwed up the investigation, and then tried to hide it all didn't get in trouble!

Why not just come with me on the hunt, I'll wound a bull and then hand you the bow and you can go slay one of your own thinking it was the bull I wounded and justify it sounds like a good deal for everyone!

[Redman]

This is a bizarre incident and just goes to show how people "in the heat of the moment" make poor decisions....something wardens should keep in mind when they have a hunter in a fuzzy situation. the thinking that proceeded is unacceptable.

 

What is funny one of the wardens in question gave me an EARFUL, about carrying the tag of my 11 year old son in my back pack (when my son wasn't even carrying a backpack).... my son didn't own a wallet the warden expected him to carry the tag..... when I say EARFUL, I mean EARFUL.... I felt like a criminal.

 

Its absolutely amazing not one person was disciplined.....

 

on a side note, I do not know Wagner other than my one interaction with him.... but he did allow let a jr hunter off without a citation that self reported a doe was shot instead of a buck.

[joe hunter]

DUH.........And we are supposed to look at them with respect ? Someone quick call the poacher hotline !

[Lucafu1]

pretty dang sad.

[Tines]

This is sad.

 

For what it's worth, I don't believe there's a law against signing a transportation tag over to someone who's going to care for your animal the following day if you can't make it out. Then again, I THOUGHT I knew the regs until I was reading some of the supervisors' statements in the affidavit!! Obviously, when I say "care for your animal", I don't mean track it down with a couple of other buddies and fling arrows at it until it dies from exhaustion! There wouldn't be an issue if the mafioso who took the bulls knee-caps out and "mercifully" slit it's throat would have just entered the field without a weapon and tagged the deceased animal the next morning.

 

"Finishing off" an animal for someone else has NEVER been acceptable. The department makes that clear in the regulations (yet somehow seriously dropped the ball on this one).

 

Too bad

[Dan H]

Media should ask AZGFD if the guilty parties were fortunate enough to also draw antelope and elk tags this year as well.

[NoBull350]

Bc777 I hate to say it but you are right! According to r12-4-302e in the regs many laws were broken. Even Mr Wagner broke the law when he left his tag with the Clay clan. Does anybody know if its possible to find revoked individuals via the net ? Im curious to see if Mr Clay was revoked .

[WhtMtnHunter]

Another black eye for the department. Just sad and disgusting.

 

There is excellent cell phone reception in 3B, especially in the areas where there are junipers. Are you telling me no one called or texted Shawn Wagner in the morning and told him his bull was still alive? I just don't believe it.

[elkaholic]

we all know that if this was one of us. here's the first of many tickets/ violations -

 

the animal was killed illegally- the tag holder didn't take the kill shot to finish off the animal

 

the animal was tagged illegally- only the tag holder can legally tag an animal- you can not just leave your tag in camp for your hunting buddys- assuming its dead is B.S.

 

which means the animal was transported illegally -

 

I'm sure any game warden would have had a few more for everyone

 

everyone involved would be fined and hunting rights revoked.

 

the court findings that the interpretation of the law didn't cover this CRIME is B.S.

[PRDATR]

Another black eye for the department. Just sad and disgusting.

 

There is excellent cell phone reception in 3B, especially in the areas where there are junipers. Are you telling me no one called or texted Shawn Wagner in the morning and told him his bull was still alive? I just don't believe it.

 

Probably too late to subpoena cell phone records.

[PRDATR]

we all know that if this was one of us. here's the first of many tickets/ violations -

 

the animal was killed illegally- the tag holder didn't take the kill shot to finish off the animal

 

the animal was tagged illegally- only the tag holder can legally tag an animal- you can not just leave your tag in camp for your hunting buddys- assuming its dead is B.S.

 

which means the animal was transported illegally -

 

I'm sure any game warden would have had a few more for everyone

 

everyone involved would be fined and hunting rights revoked.

 

the court findings that the interpretation of the law didn't cover this CRIME is B.S.

 

Well said. Please post pictures and physical descriptions of these guys so we can avoid the hunt units (#'s?) they manage and can be aware of them and well armed if we happen to come across them as they are not to be trusted amongst us as they obviously have no respect for the positions they hold and are apt to be capable of anything in the field.

They are akin to the cops in LA. Time to clean house and send these scvm packing. This prissy little girl breaks the law then gets $100K and has the nads to bilk us through G&F?

[bowhunter4life]

Some great points of view,but,

My concerns, is how was no hunting rights lost? I have seen so many times, guys catching one to many fish, shooting an extra dove over their limit. Almost every time they receive max 5 year suspension of hunting and fishing rights.

I am also a little confused, how Mr. Wagner, thought it was ok to give his tag to another individual? Even though he left his hunt unit and returned home without “knowing if the animal was alive or dead.” I was told by a wildlife manager,and also during my kids hunter safety training. We cannot sign the transfer tag until the animal was properly tagged, and all edible meat was removed from the field by the tag holder.

My question is why was this covered up? Why was each individual NOT issued citations? Clearly, laws and rules were broken by AZGFD employees that enforce this requirement daily as a normal part of their job duties.

Mike

[DesertBull]

I think the guy knew it was wrong but that he could get the good ol boy discount if he told the right people.

[AZLance]

I just posted this thread on G&Fs Facebook page... We will see how long it lasts there...

[scoutm]

"The Attorney General’s Office has jurisdiction over Arizona's Consumer Fraud Act, white collar crime, organized crime, public corruption, environmental laws, civil rights laws, and crimes committed in more than one county. Additionally, this Office prosecutes cases normally handled by county attorneys when they have a conflict."

 

From the State Attorney Generals Office web-site....I thinks this falls right in the jurisdiction wheel house...with enough presure they just might take this up.