Help with AZ Coues hunt.

[123456]

MR. Ward,

I can say that I did not have a dog in the fight to ban bait or not. I probably lean more toward banning it. I have to say that I really admire your drive and determination in fighting for what you believe in. I even like that you called out Randy from Archery Headquarters on being 2 faced. I do disagree with the notion that we are all hunters, so we need to all believe the same thing and support each other, even if you feel it is wrong.

 

This kinda goes with the whole republican vs. democrat on beliefs. If everyone just votes right down party lines, every law gets passed so long as they control the house and senate. I am very much a republican, however I think some of the republican ideas are absolutely ridicoulous. I guess I just like the fact that you feel strong about something and are willing to take a stand, but I do not like the notion that if one hunter feels strong, we all have too.

[wardsoutfitters]

MR. Ward,

I can say that I did not have a dog in the fight to ban bait or not. I probably lean more toward banning it. I have to say that I really admire your drive and determination in fighting for what you believe in. I even like that you called out Randy from Archery Headquarters on being 2 faced. I do disagree with the notion that we are all hunters, so we need to all believe the same thing and support each other, even if you feel it is wrong.

 

This kinda goes with the whole republican vs. democrat on beliefs. If everyone just votes right down party lines, every law gets passed so long as they control the house and senate. I am very much a republican, however I think some of the republican ideas are absolutely ridicoulous. I guess I just like the fact that you feel strong about something and are willing to take a stand, but I do not like the notion that if one hunter feels strong, we all have too.

I have to agree 100% with you on your above post. I’ll be honest, I’m not worried about the baiting ban, but I am upset with the fact that the department doesn’t listen to a word the public says. Did you know that the department isn’t smart enough to utilize the mandatory reports called in by archers to come up with the numbers of deer harvested in each unit? I was told in the meeting I referred to that they send out sample surveys and utilize them to make a estimated GUESS. I in my hunting lifetime have never received a survey card for an over the counter permit!!! Did you know that in anyone rifle hunt if HUNTERS harvest over 30% then they can justify raising permits, But if archers harvest over 20% they will lower opportunity.. I asked why this was and I was told because if hunter success is above 30% then we must have a over abundance of animals. I pointed out the fact that hunters are more efficient these days with long range guns, high power scopes, range finders, and big glass ,they disagreed????? What really pisses me off is the department takes away opportunity across the board with crap data. What I’m saying is our state is being managed by guessing as to how many animals are being harvested.. And We as hunters are losing opportunity because of it..

[654321]

Unit 29 is closed the second half of January because they feel the harvest in the unit is too high during the archery season. I attended a meeting with Commissioner Harris and hefelfinger, I advised them that the department closed the archery season during December of 2012 this is part of their 20% rule. I advised them that they had no data to support the closure of the second half of January because there harvest data was a year behind. I asked that they wait a year to see if the checks and balances system they had put in place had worked ,they both agreed and I thought it was a done deal that they would in fact wait a year to review harvest data, but in fact they did the exact opposite. It just go that's the same song and dance to give about 34a been closed during Decemberes to show they will close or remove or make changes without even following their own guidelines..

that's the same song and dance to give about 34A's December Archery hunt. At the same time they added 25 mule deer tags for rifle.

I must have read the regs wrong because to me it looks like 34A has 25 tags for mule deer which is the same as last year it does look like they lowered the any antlered muzzy hunt by 50 tags though

[Elkhunter1]

Unit 29 is closed the second half of January because they feel the harvest in the unit is too high during the archery season. I attended a meeting with Commissioner Harris and hefelfinger, I advised them that the department closed the archery season during December of 2012 this is part of their 20% rule. I advised them that they had no data to support the closure of the second half of January because there harvest data was a year behind. I asked that they wait a year to see if the checks and balances system they had put in place had worked ,they both agreed and I thought it was a done deal that they would in fact wait a year to review harvest data, but in fact they did the exact opposite. It just go that's the same song and dance to give about 34a been closed during Decemberes to show they will close or remove or make changes without even following their own guidelines..

that's the same song and dance to give about 34A's December Archery hunt. At the same time they added 25 mule deer tags for rifle.

I must have read the regs wrong because to me it looks like 34A has 25 tags for mule deer which is the same as last year it does look like they lowered the any antlered muzzy hunt by 50 tags though

yes, last year is the time I'm referring to when the changes were made for 34A. I posted about it last year.

[654321]

 

 

Unit 29 is closed the second half of January because they feel the harvest in the unit is too high during the archery season. I attended a meeting with Commissioner Harris and hefelfinger, I advised them that the department closed the archery season during December of 2012 this is part of their 20% rule. I advised them that they had no data to support the closure of the second half of January because there harvest data was a year behind. I asked that they wait a year to see if the checks and balances system they had put in place had worked ,they both agreed and I thought it was a done deal that they would in fact wait a year to review harvest data, but in fact they did the exact opposite. It just go that's the same song and dance to give about 34a been closed during Decemberes to show they will close or remove or make changes without even following their own guidelines..

that's the same song and dance to give about 34A's December Archery hunt. At the same time they added 25 mule deer tags for rifle.

 

I must have read the regs wrong because to me it looks like 34A has 25 tags for mule deer which is the same as last year it does look like they lowered the any antlered muzzy hunt by 50 tags though

 

yes, last year is the time I'm referring to when the changes were made for 34A. I posted about it last year.

I still don't see where they added 25 mule deer tags for 34A. I looked back in the regs all the way back to 2008 and there has always been 25 rifle mule deer tags,

[Elkhunter1]

Unit 29 is closed the second half of January because they feel the harvest in the unit is too high during the archery season. I attended a meeting with Commissioner Harris and hefelfinger, I advised them that the department closed the archery season during December of 2012 this is part of their 20% rule. I advised them that they had no data to support the closure of the second half of January because there harvest data was a year behind. I asked that they wait a year to see if the checks and balances system they had put in place had worked ,they both agreed and I thought it was a done deal that they would in fact wait a year to review harvest data, but in fact they did the exact opposite. It just go that's the same song and dance to give about 34a been closed during Decemberes to show they will close or remove or make changes without even following their own guidelines..

that's the same song and dance to give about 34A's December Archery hunt. At the same time they added 25 mule deer tags for rifle.

I must have read the regs wrong because to me it looks like 34A has 25 tags for mule deer which is the same as last year it does look like they lowered the any antlered muzzy hunt by 50 tags though

yes, last year is the time I'm referring to when the changes were made for 34A. I posted about it last year.

I still don't see where they added 25 mule deer tags for 34A. I looked back in the regs all the way back to 2008 and there has always been 25 rifle mule deer tags,

Unit 29 is closed the second half of January because they feel the harvest in the unit is too high during the archery season. I attended a meeting with Commissioner Harris and hefelfinger, I advised them that the department closed the archery season during December of 2012 this is part of their 20% rule. I advised them that they had no data to support the closure of the second half of January because there harvest data was a year behind. I asked that they wait a year to see if the checks and balances system they had put in place had worked ,they both agreed and I thought it was a done deal that they would in fact wait a year to review harvest data, but in fact they did the exact opposite. It just go that's the same song and dance to give about 34a been closed during Decemberes to show they will close or remove or make changes without even following their own guidelines..

that's the same song and dance to give about 34A's December Archery hunt. At the same time they added 25 mule deer tags for rifle.

I must have read the regs wrong because to me it looks like 34A has 25 tags for mule deer which is the same as last year it does look like they lowered the any antlered muzzy hunt by 50 tags though

yes, last year is the time I'm referring to when the changes were made for 34A. I posted about it last year.

I still don't see where they added 25 mule deer tags for 34A. I looked back in the regs all the way back to 2008 and there has always been 25 rifle mule deer tags,

if I remember it was muzzleloader tags, I will have to check when I get my laptop back in a couple of days.

[654321]

 

 

 

 

Unit 29 is closed the second half of January because they feel the harvest in the unit is too high during the archery season. I attended a meeting with Commissioner Harris and hefelfinger, I advised them that the department closed the archery season during December of 2012 this is part of their 20% rule. I advised them that they had no data to support the closure of the second half of January because there harvest data was a year behind. I asked that they wait a year to see if the checks and balances system they had put in place had worked ,they both agreed and I thought it was a done deal that they would in fact wait a year to review harvest data, but in fact they did the exact opposite. It just go that's the same song and dance to give about 34a been closed during Decemberes to show they will close or remove or make changes without even following their own guidelines..

that's the same song and dance to give about 34A's December Archery hunt. At the same time they added 25 mule deer tags for rifle.

 

I must have read the regs wrong because to me it looks like 34A has 25 tags for mule deer which is the same as last year it does look like they lowered the any antlered muzzy hunt by 50 tags though

 

yes, last year is the time I'm referring to when the changes were made for 34A. I posted about it last year.

 

I still don't see where they added 25 mule deer tags for 34A. I looked back in the regs all the way back to 2008 and there has always been 25 rifle mule deer tags,

 

 

 

 

 

Unit 29 is closed the second half of January because they feel the harvest in the unit is too high during the archery season. I attended a meeting with Commissioner Harris and hefelfinger, I advised them that the department closed the archery season during December of 2012 this is part of their 20% rule. I advised them that they had no data to support the closure of the second half of January because there harvest data was a year behind. I asked that they wait a year to see if the checks and balances system they had put in place had worked ,they both agreed and I thought it was a done deal that they would in fact wait a year to review harvest data, but in fact they did the exact opposite. It just go that's the same song and dance to give about 34a been closed during Decemberes to show they will close or remove or make changes without even following their own guidelines..

that's the same song and dance to give about 34A's December Archery hunt. At the same time they added 25 mule deer tags for rifle.

 

I must have read the regs wrong because to me it looks like 34A has 25 tags for mule deer which is the same as last year it does look like they lowered the any antlered muzzy hunt by 50 tags though

 

yes, last year is the time I'm referring to when the changes were made for 34A. I posted about it last year.

 

I still don't see where they added 25 mule deer tags for 34A. I looked back in the regs all the way back to 2008 and there has always been 25 rifle mule deer tags,

if I remember it was muzzleloader tags, I will have to check when I get my laptop back in a couple of days.

 

There's a pretty cool book the GF puts out every year on their web page, if you look at it it goes from 2006 to 2010, I believe in 2006 there were 75 rifle MD tags and every year after there has been 25 tags. 2006 thru 2011 there were 100 muzzy tag then 2012 there were 75 and now 2013 25. Whats really interesting is the harvest data. Take a look at the archery harvest compared to the rifle harvest. The percent is higher for rifle but the number of MD killed with a bow really surprised me. Look at the muzzy harvest, that hunt is ant antlered but look at which species is being harvested. Pretty interesting stuff.

[wardsoutfitters]

Yes very cool book to bad the numbers you are looking as to what is being harvested is a GUESS!!!!

[654321]

Yes very cool book to bad the numbers you are looking as to what is being harvested is a GUESS!!!!

Really, every deer I have ever harvested with a bow I called a number and told a gal what unit the deer was harversted in, how many points it had, how many days hunted ,type of bow,ect. so I'm pretty sure there was no guess work at all there so it seems to me that data they get from all the mandatory archery report isn't guessing it is right from the hunter who harvested, I have also filled out a great deal of survey cards from the GF and have always filled them out honestly, pretty sure the survey cards ask unit harvested, weapon type spike, buck or doe and if any deer couldn't be recovered ect. It seems to me that data also isn't guess work. I would love to see mandatory harvesting, I have filled out alot of those surveys on line it is fast and simple.

[wardsoutfitters]

Yes very cool book to bad the numbers you are looking as to what is being harvested is a GUESS!!!!

Really, every deer I have ever harvested with a bow I called a number and told a gal what unit the deer was harversted in, how many points it had, how many days hunted ,type of bow,ect. so I'm pretty sure there was no guess work at all there so it seems to me that data they get from all the mandatory archery report isn't guessing it is right from the hunter who harvested, I have also filled out a great deal of survey cards from the GF and have always filled them out honestly, pretty sure the survey cards ask unit harvested, weapon type spike, buck or doe and if any deer couldn't be recovered ect. It seems to me that data also isn't guess work. I would love to see mandatory harvesting, I have filled out alot of those surveys on line it is fast and simple.

!!!!Again I will state... The department does not use the information from the manditory reporting of archers to get there numbers as to how many animals were harvested!!!!!!!! and keep in mind only 20%of the survey cards sent to hunters get returned... IT IS A GUESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its all crap data

[Elkhunter1]

Yes very cool book to bad the numbers you are looking as to what is being harvested is a GUESS!!!!

Really, every deer I have ever harvested with a bow I called a number and told a gal what unit the deer was harversted in, how many points it had, how many days hunted ,type of bow,ect. so I'm pretty sure there was no guess work at all there so it seems to me that data they get from all the mandatory archery report isn't guessing it is right from the hunter who harvested, I have also filled out a great deal of survey cards from the GF and have always filled them out honestly, pretty sure the survey cards ask unit harvested, weapon type spike, buck or doe and if any deer couldn't be recovered ect. It seems to me that data also isn't guess work. I would love to see mandatory harvesting, I have filled out alot of those surveys on line it is fast and simple.

!!!!Again I will state... The department does not use the information from the manditory reporting of archers to get there numbers as to how many animals were harvested!!!!!!!! and keep in mind only 20%of the survey cards sent to hunters get returned... IT IS A GUESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its all crap data

this is another good point, if and only if all hunters report their hunt outcome canthey have accurate numbers to base the hunts and permit numbers by. HARD NUMBER ARE HARD TO DISPUTE!

[654321]

 

 

Yes very cool book to bad the numbers you are looking as to what is being harvested is a GUESS!!!!

Really, every deer I have ever harvested with a bow I called a number and told a gal what unit the deer was harversted in, how many points it had, how many days hunted ,type of bow,ect. so I'm pretty sure there was no guess work at all there so it seems to me that data they get from all the mandatory archery report isn't guessing it is right from the hunter who harvested, I have also filled out a great deal of survey cards from the GF and have always filled them out honestly, pretty sure the survey cards ask unit harvested, weapon type spike, buck or doe and if any deer couldn't be recovered ect. It seems to me that data also isn't guess work. I would love to see mandatory harvesting, I have filled out alot of those surveys on line it is fast and simple.

 

!!!!Again I will state... The department does not use the information from the manditory reporting of archers to get there numbers as to how many animals were harvested!!!!!!!! and keep in mind only 20%of the survey cards sent to hunters get returned... IT IS A GUESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its all crap data

 

this is another good point, if and only if all hunters report their hunt outcome canthey have accurate numbers to base the hunts and permit numbers by. HARD NUMBER ARE HARD TO DISPUTE!

I'm curiuos I don't hunt any other states except Az. so is Az. the only wildlife agency that doesn't require mandatory harvest reporting and if there are other states that don't require it do they just GUESS and use crap data. I don't agree with every decsion the AZGFD makes but when it comes to managing the states wildlife I trust them more to manage our wildlife than say the USFS, USFWS, BLM, CATTLEMANS ASSOCIATION, AZ. CRITTER GROUPS, THE CBS, PETA, SIEARRA CLUB, DEFENDERS OF WILDLIFE, SFW, ANY OUTFITTING BUSINESS, ECT.

[wardsoutfitters]

I am not suggesting that anyone other than the azgfd manage our game but they need to do a better job at it. I asked why they don’t implement a mandatory reporting process and they said they don’t want to burden the hunters with it, I think it's because they will find out we are over harvesting game in az!!! They in turn would have to reduce tags, and that would mean loose of revenue

I hear a few years back that the ada did some studies on the Kaibab and found the department was off on numbers. Amanda can you help out with this about the studies done

[654321]

I am not suggesting that anyone other than the azgfd manage our game but they need to do a better job at it. I asked why they don’t implement a mandatory reporting process and they said they don’t want to burden the hunters with it, I think it's because they will find out we are over harvesting game in az!!! They in turn would have to reduce tags, and that would mean loose of revenue

I hear a few years back that the ada did some studies on the Kaibab and found the department was off on numbers. Amanda can you help out with this about the studies done

I agree with the mandatory harvest report, all though on this site all I ever see when a new rule is implemented is how stupid that is and we don't need more rules so how does the AZGFD go about forcing people to report. I looked and it appears NMGFD rule is you don't report by a certain time you aren't elgible for the next draw. It must work to a point but they don't have bonus points. Can you imagine the uproar if someone lost their loyal point because they didn't report. Oregon has had mandatory reporting for years but no enforcing of it, they were only getting a 42% compliance so this year they will charge an extra $25 if you hadn't reported again I believe that would cause a huge uproar here. Now there is the question of are they doing that bad of job, it seems to me that if the majority of people weren't happy with the AZGFD they would be getting so much negative feed back that they would have to change something. Lets say they cut tags back no doubt lost revenue so what now, they raise fees they have to, and lets don't kid ourselves the passage of this new bill the department will be changing the fee structure. I honestly don't mind some fee increases lets be honest the cost of doing business is true for the AZGFD too. I guess for me it just doesn't seem like its that bad.

[Elkhunter1]

I am not suggesting that anyone other than the azgfd manage our game but they need to do a better job at it. I asked why they don’t implement a mandatory reporting process and they said they don’t want to burden the hunters with it, I think it's because they will find out we are over harvesting game in az!!! They in turn would have to reduce tags, and that would mean loose of revenue

I hear a few years back that the ada did some studies on the Kaibab and found the department was off on numbers. Amanda can you help out with this about the studies done

I agree with the mandatory harvest report, all though on this site all I ever see when a new rule is implemented is how stupid that is and we don't need more rules so how does the AZGFD go about forcing people to report. I looked and it appears NMGFD rule is you don't report by a certain time you aren't elgible for the next draw. It must work to a point but they don't have bonus points. Can you imagine the uproar if someone lost their loyal point because they didn't report. Oregon has had mandatory reporting for years but no enforcing of it, they were only getting a 42% compliance so this year they will charge an extra $25 if you hadn't reported again I believe that would cause a huge uproar here. Now there is the question of are they doing that bad of job, it seems to me that if the majority of people weren't happy with the AZGFD they would be getting so much negative feed back that they would have to change something. Lets say they cut tags back no doubt lost revenue so what now, they raise fees they have to, and lets don't kid ourselves the passage of this new bill the department will be changing the fee structure. I honestly don't mind some fee increases lets be honest the cost of doing business is true for the AZGFD too. I guess for me it just doesn't seem like its that bad.

NOT THAT BAD? When does it get "that bad, when the deer population is so low you see 20 hunters for every deer, or is it when you get real excited to see one deer all day? I have seen the Mule Deer population diminish significantly over the last 20 years. I used to hunt them in areas that now have hardly any Mulies and what you do see aren't the size they were years earlier. I for one would like to get something changed BEFORE we get to crisis levels....JMTSW