Pope and Young 2013 National Convention in Dallas April Next Weekend

[Dave_D]

Are any of you good guys and gals headed to the P&Y convention in Dallas?

 

I received a letter a while back formally requesting that the Coues' whitetail I harvested be sent for "the 28th Biennium P&Y Panel Judging" and then display at the convention. I thought long and hard about putting the mount in someone else's care for a couple of months, but my better side reminded me that the record books are about respect for the animal, not the selfish hunter. So, I sent it in.

 

After speaking with their representative, he strongly encouraged me to go to the convention to accept the award on behalf of the animal. I have recently decided that I am not going to make it to Dallas, but thought I would see if anybody else is headed there?

[Gary I]

Congrats on taking a buck worthy of being honored like this. You are absolutely correct in that it is all about respect for the animal. I too wrestled with the decision to send my buck off to the convention without being able to go myself, but eventually made the same choice you did. As far as my buck getting there and back, all went very well, no problems at all. However, I was very disappointed in the results of the panel scoring. After having the buck officially scored here twice, by official measurerers, with the same results, it was panel scored and the buck lost almost 3 inches. If the buck was a contender for a world record I could see the need to panel score just to be sure. What good is it to have official measurerers if they are going to be over ruled later. The result was that my buck went from being number 5 in the book to number 11. If I had known that there was a chance that things would have turned out like this I never would have sent him in and his first official score would stand forever. I feel that after Pope and Young accepted the first official measurement and my money to enter him in their book that that should be it. I don't think I would ever send another animal in to be panel scored again. I don't mean to sould like a whiner but the buck should get all the respect due to him, wether or not my name is next to him as the hunter.

 

I truely hope that your experience is everything that it should be and the scoring results are favorable. Congrats again on the buck of a lifetime.

[CouesWhitetail]

Congratulations on your buck and it's too bad you can't make it. I won't be going, but maybe someone else here will.

[Dave_D]

Thanks Gary and Amanda.

 

Gary, your comments are of interest and are not taken lightly (nor do you sound like a whiner). My buck was also officially scored twice (one SCI and one P&Y). It has been over 2 years since the original score was established, as it was a January 2011 harvest - the first month of a new recording period for P&Y. Surely if they want you to wait 60 days for a drying period to establish a score they would also take into consideration other shrinkage over longer periods of time - you would think. I know very little about scoring antlers, and leave that up to the experts. It is difficult for me to put any faith in records though if panel scored bucks aren't recognized for their original score in some form or fashion. Or, to maintain the integrity of the program they need to start ranking the accuracy of the original measurers like feedback on yelp to weed out those that are so far off from what a panel would score the same animal. Like you said, what is the point of sending it in then if it will likely be less than the original score? I agree, they should give the animal its full credit due (the only reason I filled out the paperwork and mailed in the check anyway - I kind of felt like it was the responsible thing to do). Either way, congratulations on what sounds like a tremendous buck! Would love to see pictures and/or hear details on what the original score was.

 

From the sound of the crickets chirping on this post - it doesn't appear anyone else will be attending. I will have to wait until my mount returns I guess to learn the panel score of my buck.

[StickFlicker]

Gary,

 

If your buck's score was #5 of all time when it was entered, Pope & Young would not even have listed it in the records at all without your submitting it to be panel scored. So your statement that "his first official score would stand forever" would not be true. It would have not had any official score, because it would have been rejected for entry without a panel score. That is the organization's way of maintaining the top layer of the records as absolutely accurate as possible. Not all local measurers have the same experience, and sometimes they can make a mistake or just simply interpret the measuring rule differently than the Panel. Antlers do some very strange things sometimes, and the proper way to measure a particular rack may be subject to various interpretations, especially on non-typical antlers. A Panel of some of the most experienced Measurers re-measure those animals that are at the very top of each category to keep things fair to the top applicants that are in competition for Biannual Awards, as well as their trophy's final position in the listings.

 

The Club does recognize that trophies are subject to shrinkage as time goes by, Therefore, credit for varying amounts of expected shrinkage are allowed during the panel scoring process based upon historical shrinkage records for each species, without any reduction in final score. If a score is changed, it is because the Panel has determined that some portion of the rack should be measured differently than the original scorer did, not just because it shrank a slight amount. It is also not unusual for the Panel to increase the score from the original score as well, if the Panel scores it higher than the original Measurer.

 

There is an exeption for pending World Records, however, where no shrink factor is considered. This is presumably to keep the playing field completely level for the top entry of each category. There is no perfect system, but P&Y is constantly evolving to try to make the process as fair and accurate as possible for all trophies entered.

[Old Buck]

Dave_D I recommend that you head to Dallas. You could be there before the end of the day! I was in the same position that you are in back in the early 80's. I shipped my coues rack off to be panel scored for the biennial compitition.The covention was in Fargo, ND and I thought that it was way too far away and didn't go. I have always wished that I had gone. P+Y Club is one of the few organizations that I belong to. It has a strong conservation focus. Get yourself to Dallas ASAP!

[Gary I]

marvin,

 

I don't mean to hijack Dave's topic her but I have a question for you since you seem to know the rules well. What would be the book position for an animal that would make it have to be panel scored? Is it top 10, top 20 or what? Just curious at this point. Anyway it was never brought to my attention that my buck would need to be panel scored to be recognized. It was presented to me as an option as a way to credit the life of the animal. I fully understand the need to keep the top layer of the records as accurate as possible, just wish it would have been explained a little better at the time. It is what it is.

 

I also agree with Old Buck, I wish I had gone to the convention. I will more than likely never get another chance to go under the same circumstances.

[StickFlicker]

Gary, I don't think Dave would mind this turning into a conversation about the process of panel scoring. He's the one that suggested I come to this thread after you weighed in with your thoughts. The rule requres that the top 5 of all time, in any category, must be panel scored for inclusion to the records.

 

Normally, up to the five largest animals taken during a two year biannual period are invited to be panel scored. You must send your animal to be considered for biannual awards (plaques). If you are invited and choose not to send your trophy, your animal is not eligible to win a biannual award but will still be listed in the book, unless it is in the top five of all time for that category.

 

The Bowhunting In Arizona Record Book Committee only requires a panel score if the animal falls in the top 3 of all time, with the same result if it is not submitted. It will not be listed in the record book. A Pope & Young panel score may substitute for a BIA panel.

 

I actually served as a panel score measurer for the trophies submitted to the Dallas convention, and I was fortunate enough to measure some very nice animals. I am happy to answer any other questions that you may have on the process for any of these records programs.

 

Marvin

[BOHNTR]

You boys missed an awesome time in Dallas, Texas. Had a great time at the convention, even if I had a ton of meetings and "tasks" to do while I was there. Wish you would of made it Marvin, we could have used the help! Missed a good meeting too!

 

Absolutely no excuses for you boys and girls not to attend now, as the 2015 P&Y Convention will be in Phoenix, Arizona. I hope to see all of you there and share some good times. It will be nice to be able to put some faces with their respective screen handles here.

[azbow]

Roy, Is there a list of all the award winners trophies with their scores somewhere?

[BOHNTR]

Roy, Is there a list of all the award winners trophies with their scores somewhere?

 

The 28th recording book was given out to all attendees. It has all of the animals recorded in the last two years as well as the top animals sent to panel and their respective measurements. Is there something I can look up for you?

[azbow]

OK, sent you a PM

[BOHNTR]

Info sent back

[StickFlicker]

You can purchase a copy of the 28th Recording Period book by contacting Pope & Young. Historically, they have cost about $15 or so.

 

(507) 867-4144

Email: admin@pope-young.org