peckl1 Report post Posted May 10, 2004 I have a question for the group. My brother and I have always put in for deer together as a group. Now my brother in law and nephew want to hunt with us. Should I try to get us draw as a group or should I put us all in as singles? Any help would be appreciated. Lee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
az4life Report post Posted May 10, 2004 Definitely as a group. No advantage I know of as singles except maybe 1 or 2 could go and the others may not get drawn at all. Play the odds on this. Check the area you plan to hunt against the draw / success rates in the gama nd fish website. If you put in with more than 1 choice, you could also wind up being drawn for seperate units if you put in seperately too! Good Luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jason Report post Posted May 10, 2004 I always put in for deer with my dad and a friend. We always have the same amount of points so that doesn't hurt us and we all have the same love and respect for the outdoors, and of course passion for hunting. My wife still puts in separately for everything and maybe someday she will get drawn for a dream hunt(10 early bull, 13B muley, 34A, 32 coues, etc) that all the non-residents always seem to draw. The only thing bad about putting in separetely is you maybe hunting alone if you draw different units. Good Luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stanley Report post Posted May 11, 2004 Interesting question, and as with most subjects; everyone has their own opinion. When I was growing-up (and still today...), my dad and I always put in on separate applications. We saw a couple of advantages to this: 1) We felt that we had a better chance of at least one of us getting drawn. 2) We would try to ensure the 2nd choice was for a completely separate date, so if we got drawn for separate hunts, we got to go on two (didn't always work out...)! Last year I got to hunt in October, and then join my dad on a Dec hunt. Nice to be able to get out twice... Disadvantages? Once or twice over the years we got drawn for separate areas with overlapping dates. In those cases we just split the season, or burned one tag. On the other hand, I have a friend who lives out of state that sometimes likes to join me for hunting trips here in AZ. In this case, I always put him in with me on my application. Obviously if he is traveling a long ways, we want to be on the same hunt. My $.02. S. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ernesto C Report post Posted May 11, 2004 Sometimes applying together with an out of state does not help if you are a resident,remember that out of staters will get less than 10% of the permits,probably applying separate for the same units will be the best choice (it had worked for me so far) Or if the out state has 3 of more bonus points than you then probably it will be a good idea to apply together. God bless you all on this drawing. Ernesto C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckl1 Report post Posted May 11, 2004 Thanks for the input. I went ahead and put us all in as group. We are all AZ residents so hopefully we will get drawn. Good luck to all. Lee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COUESAZ Report post Posted May 11, 2004 The way it works is if you have four people put in for a hunt. you multiply your chance to be drawn by four. So if you have four people and five hunts picked you will most likley be drawn for something. If the number four guy gets drawn for the december hunt then you all get drawn with him. I will say this year is the first year I put in alone and got the december hunt. All my friends got pissed at me because they would have been drawn with me had I waited for them to get ready on the last day of app drop off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coues addict Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Hey Arizona Guide Please correct me if I am wrong. I must be all screwed up, but, this is the way I always thought it worked. First, bonus points only count on deer in units north of the Colorado river, ie 12a, 12b, 13a, 13b, Etc. Second, If you apply with four people you should divide your chances by four because its a lot easier to fill one tag than four? Third, the first person on the application is the only person that counts on an application with multiple applicants? This is the way I always thought it worked, so I always apply seperately and not with friends or family members. Is there any truth in all this or what? Thanks Coues Addict Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diamondbackaz Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Guide, I don't believe thats the way it works. The way I understand the process, each application is given a draw number in the drawing process. When the computer gets to your number, it looks at your 1st choice, if that hunt is full, then it goes to your 2nd choice to see if there are openings. If there is, then you get a tag for the 2nd chioce. You get the tag despite the fact that another application that has a higher draw number had put that hunt down for a 1st choice. If the 2nd choice hunt is full too, then your last three choices will be looked at after all of the applications have been processed. Basically the last 3 choices are for the left overs. So when you select your last three choices, select hunts that have less 1st and 2nd applicants that there are permits. Also, many hunters don't hunt because they make stupid mistakes on their application. The application is given the number, not the hunter. I have felt that putting in as an individual has a better chance when the hunts get close to filling. Otherwise if there are two permits left, and the next application up has four hunters on it, the application would get tossed back and go to the next one with one or two hunters on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ernesto C Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Bonus points will count for any unit in the state not for the ones north of the Colorado river only. With four people in the application you divide your chances by four for example:if one guy has one bonus point the other has three,another has four and the other also have four ,that's a total of 12 bonus points divide that by four equals 3. Your application will go thru the drawing 4 times. I dont know if it is a lot easier to fill one tag than four,Diamonbackaz is correct if you apply four people and there are less than 3 permits left you will not get a permit at least for that unit. Everybody counts in the application but applicant "A" is the one that will recieve the refund if not lucky I agree with the process the Diamonbackaz explained. God bless you all and thanks. Ernesto C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COUESAZ Report post Posted May 12, 2004 (edited) You both may be right . I have always thought the same thing until three years ago a friend of mine said his uncle that works for the game and fish explained it the way I did above. he also said that the bonus points are the same way they multiply all your chances that many more times. But your bonus points are avraged out between every one on the the app. So if someone has none it will hurt the average. I see what your saying about there only being one tag left and four people putting in on the same app. I have only put in alone one time in my life. I have always drawn my first choice. even the one year I put in alone. I have never gone a year without drawing a tag in 21 years eather. I guess the draw odds have been on my side. Maybe amanda would be able to clear it up for us. She has worked with the game and fish alot it sounds like. So she could know the answer. The last thing I want to do is preach false game and fish doctrine. so if I am wrong. I will say in advance that I am sorry. Edited January 1, 1970 by ARIZONA GUIDE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rembrant Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Yeah, what Stanley and Ernesto are saying is the same understanding that I have. Ernesto is also correct in what he said about putting in with an 'out of stater' NOT being to your advantage. Popular belief is this helps you get drawn - not so. Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coueser Report post Posted May 12, 2004 I'll add one more tidbit of information. I called Game and Fish and asked them if two people are on a card and one has 2 bonus points and the other 3 bonus points how many are given. They said that since the average is 2.5 bonus points they round it up and the application receives three bonus points. I have used this to help out my dad who took four different kids to hunters safety course but never actually signed up himself. When Arizona went to the bonus point system, he was out that point, but since we put in together, he actually ends up with as many points as I have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TREESTANDMAN Report post Posted May 12, 2004 DiamondbackAZ hit it right on the money. Very accurate description. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stanley Report post Posted May 12, 2004 I agree that DiamondbackAZ's explanation sounds accurate. I still have one more question though; If 4 people (with no bonus points, for this example) put in on one application, does each individual applicant get assigned a draw number, or does the application get a single draw number? If the answer is the former, then what happens when any one individual draw number comes-up? If the hunt is available, do all 4 people get a tag? S. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
