dave Report post Posted August 21, 2006 I just started a new program about a week ago. I watched all the video?s that Bownut left the link for with Randy Ulmer. http://www.bowhunter.com/bowhuntermagtv/BHTV_DOdescriptions/ I have had a problem with target panic and punching. I have always shot an index finger release. Now my brain, bow arm and index finger are all connected in a way I can not over come. I got a new thumb release to start the program with. I started out shooting at a 9? blank circle at 5 yards. I am trying to get the feel of relaxing my bow arm and HAND and squeezing the release so each shot is a surprise. I have practiced shooting 20 shots every day for about 8 days now. In the program you slowly move back 2.5 yards every 3 days and reduce the size of the target 1? each time until you are at 20 yards shooting at a 3? circle. I am still at 5 yards and will not move until I can do it perfect every shot for three sessions. It has taken some time to get use to the new release and get over all my bad habits. The best thing that has helped my practice is that a friend offered to come over and take pictures of my form. I thought for a minute, da, I have a video camera. I have videoed my last 4 practice sessions. Man, what an eye opener. I can watch every move I make, hit the back up button and watch how the bow moves or reacts on each shot, what my bow hand does, what my thumb does, how my release hand moves when the shot goes off, my total overall form etc? I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I hope to move back to 7.5 yards in a couple days. I wont be remade in time for the September hunts or be able to go to shoots until I am done but it is something I have to do. One other thing I have learned with the video, dang I am old, fat and ugly Some things you just can?t fix Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted August 21, 2006 Sounds like you have some great dedication there Dave. I hope your new program works out for you. Great idea video taping yourself. I bet we could all benefit from that kind of critique to look at form and movement while shooting. Amanda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted August 21, 2006 Dave, I have the same problem you do. Sometimes I get so frustrated I just want to seel the bow and stick to the rifle/muzzleloader. What release did you buy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted August 21, 2006 I have a passion to shoot the bow well and have been so frustrated I refuse to continue to shoot it 1/2 glass. I got a Carter Chocolate Addiction 4 finger. The Carter releases are a little on the pricey side but have excellent workmanship and functionality. I had to crank my bow down to 60 lbs. to give my fingers time to get in shape pulling that type of a release. I have used a wrist-pull for so many years the fingers are not in shape. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BowNut Report post Posted August 22, 2006 Hey Dave, It sounds to me that what you are doing will work great. Good choice on the release I have two of them I liked them so much. (one for back up) I have left a handheld in the woods a few times.I have mine set up so my thumb wraps around the barrel and when you pull with those big muscles in your back that Randy was talking about it will fire with out actually moving your thumb. That is the way it should be done but I still punch it more times than not. Two things that I do.I go to 10 yards draw the bow close my eyes and just think about pulling through the shot and making a great shot with my eyes closed. I do this until everything feels good sometimes it takes a while. The thing that I think helped me the most was going to 5 or 10 yard draw the bow and hold the pin on the spot hold it there then let down. I just kept doing this until I trained myself that I could hold it there without shooting. I can not tell you how many times I would get my pin on that spot and my whole body would flinch because my brain would want to hammer that trigger. It takes a lot of work and dedication to cure target panic I have never total gotten rid of it. It sneaks its ugly little head up at the worst moments. It has caused many archers to give up on the sport. I have seen top shooters get target panic after years of being at the top of there game. It sucks but it happens! Some times it takes a good coach to fix it but but if you can master back tension you should be able to cure target panic. Good luck and good shooting Dallas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted August 22, 2006 Thanks Bownut, A lot of good stuff right there. I knew I should have started this two years ago. I dreaded it. I did not want to stop going to shoots or miss anything. I want everyone to know, when you start seeing empovement in your practice, and you start feeling how good it feels to squeeze off a shot. It is worth the time and work. I usta get so mad about a ripped shot and that I would never get better. Now I am enjoying feeling a good shot and I don't have any pressure or any agenda. This just feels good right now. Shoot the bow the way it should be shot and enjoy it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BowNut Report post Posted August 22, 2006 I like to here what you are doing is helping. I like to help out other archers as much as I can with the little I know. Weather its at the range on the net or in the shop. If I can help someone I will try. But if you 3D scores go up to much your on your own. LOL!!! Keep us posted on your progress. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted August 23, 2006 O.K., Here's the update for today: I had to tear apart my bow yesterday so the feller that machined my custom shoot-through riser could borrow my #8 spiral cams to try on his latest invention. I had to pick up my ultratec and start over with it. Changing from the Scott index finger wrist pull to the Carter Chocolate 4 finger thumb required me to cut the peep ties out and reposition it about 3/8" higher. I did that yesterday and then did something you are not supposed to do. I went off the program to see how it shot through paper. What a cool thing to do! I put up my paper tuner frame (it holds 3 pages of that connected computer paper taped across it). Now I had a totally blank huge white piece of paper in front of my target bag to shoot through. What a great experience. Every time I have ever tried to paper tune in the past, I was on a mission to shoot bullet holes. This time I just relaxed and squeezed of at a blank target. No pressure, no care how it ripped, I was doing the program. That was the most productive tuning session I have ever done. So much for the fun stuff. I talked to the guy that started some folks on this program and told him I was doing it and then he started asking me about how I was doing with the breathing??? No one told me about that. He then proceeded to tell about breathing technical that goes with the aiming program in which you take certain breaths at certain times and let so much air out etc.. You start out holding the pin at the top of the circle on the first breath and then let out and breath in again and adjust all your aiming form, then let half a breath out and start aiming and pulling with your back muscles. Needles to say, with all this new stuff, I will be at 7 yards for a while. Haven't got to watch my video from today?s session but I am sure I will see one idiot that can only handle one thing at a time With all that said, this is the most fun I have had shooting a bow in the last 30 years. Can't wait to do it again tomorrow! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redbeard Report post Posted August 23, 2006 Dave, I have known quite a few good archers who have developed serious target panic. I have had times when I think I was getting it too. It is amazing how subconscious things get programmed. Some of my friends have cured it the way you are going and others just keep it a bay but it seems to pop up a time or two every 3D shoot. I've known a couple who just about quit hunting over it. I think you are taking the right approach. I admire your discipline and dedication. How do I practice...? Here are a few of my experiences. One thing I can say is if I start flinching, punching, double clutching, or any of the other nasty things that can come up I know I am shooting too much. I just stop rather than try to fight through it. I've seen enough guys just totally fall apart trying to fight it. I finally adopted a seasonal approach for archery and during the season I try not to shoot too often or too long. I don't do 3D's and am not into long shots so I can live with the range/accuracy limitations of less practice. I do need more practice with the compound bow to get more comfortable in hunting situations but for now I really only want to hunt with my longbow. It just seems so much more natural to me in the woods. Instinctive shooting is so much different than shooting modern bows. I used to shoot my trad bows way too much. Of course early on you need to shoot a lot to get it programmed into your muscle memory and spatial awareness. Now I try my best not to shoot at targets with my longbow unless I have to for conditioning or to check broadhead flight. It is just too hard for me to maintain sufficient concentration for instinctive shooting for more than a few shots. Once I start losing accuracy all kinds of mental stuff kicks in and I start thinking about the shot mechanics too much and I start spraying arrows. Sometimes at home I lose concentration so bad I miss my whole makenzie deer at 30. If I really slow down and relax I can get it together but I prefer just to keep it short. Sometimes I just walk out and shoot a few arrows then put it away. Most of my practice trad shooting is in the field. I almost always bring my longbow in the woods whenever I go for a hike or scouting. I just stump shoot one arrow every so often. I usually pick a target while walking and imagine it is an animal. It really helps me focus on one shot and one spot. Sometimes I even sort of stalk to a good shooting position with cover just like I would hunting. I nock an arrow and shoot within a few seconds. I'm amazed at how accurate I can shoot in those high focus low repetition scenarios. With instinctive shooting my best shot is always the first one because I disengage the brain. Last weekend Andy and I were out scouting and I was "killing" sticks etc. at ranges sometimes over 40 yards. That's a long shot for me with a longbow. My limit on an animal is about 25. One other thing I practice. .. I watch hunting videos and TOTALLY focus on a spot on the animal in the scene and call my shot. By call the shot I mean when to shoot based on what the animal is doing and shot angle etc. My wife and kids can be bugging me and I absolutely cannot take my concentration off the spot. It is a weird feeling because I can't blink turn my head or even move. I feel like I'm in the video. I think this is really good practice even for compound shooters although having a pin to put on the spot helps a lot in focusing. I really like the Primos videos for this. If you watch these videos you can learn a lot more than what they are trying to teach (sell) you. The new Truth 3 Bowhunting is a pretty good one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted August 24, 2006 Good point you make Redbeard, you can not force anything, it has to be a totally relaxed thing. For me to stop shooting would not cure anything. I have to learn how to shoot each shot perfect. That takes practice. I think a good example of what you are talking about is that my wife, one of the Nagger Sisters gave me a deadline for dinner on the grill tonight (since she is practically starving since I started this program). I was pushing the program so I could get dinner done. Shot number 19, I ripped. Lesson well learned, if I can?t do it right every time, I will stop. Same as letting down if your not all together. Good point about the concentration. To me that means planning my practice so I won?t be distracted. What you say about when the distraction comes as it will in any realm you shoot in and being able to stay focused is where I hope to get some day. Thanks for sharing all that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tines Report post Posted August 24, 2006 Like Bownut, I have to constantly remind myself that I'm still getting over target panic. This is what helped me. I took my sight off and just shot into bails for a long time until I was no longer "aiming" at something. In turn, I had nothing to force me to anticipate my shot. I had to shoot a lot to break my bad habits. Don't give up and good job for acknowledging you punch the trigger. Most shooters are punchers (even those who say they don't). There are some out there who are controlled punchers and shoot quite well. The last thing I did and continue to do is talk to myself before the shot. I say simple things like "pick a spot" and "don't screw this up like last time!" It was a natural thing to punch the trigger when it was where I wanted to hit. Now (most of the time) wherever I hit, that's where I happened to be holding when my release lets go. If that makes sense. Good luck and keep shooting! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted August 24, 2006 Tines, You are talking my language! You sound like my friend that has been bending my ear for the last two years. Good to hear from guys that know what I am dealing with and have went to the next level. I would talk to myself but I ain't got the breathing down yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted August 28, 2006 Here is a little up-date since we were off for a few days. Another lesson learned....Since I switched over to the thumb release and started the program, I now let down if everything is not right. Now here is the lesson....TAKE YOUR COTTON PICKIN THUMB OFF THE KNURLED KNOB KNOWN AS THE TRIGGER BEFORE YOU START TO LET DOWN!!! Another lesson....Since I shoot a spiral cam, I have to stay against the wall and not creep a whisker or the bow will take it back. You know what happens with a thumb release when the bow trys to take it back while you are aiming? Yep a lot of fun going on over here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
out2hunt Report post Posted August 28, 2006 Everyone has done it dave just be careful you don't shoot your cat lol.Seems that letting down is harder when you don't know your bows about to do it huh!Practice makes perfect good luck!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter84 Report post Posted August 29, 2006 I have a step program, that I use . Its as mechanical as I can make it. I found if I keep the same thing going all the time and refuse to miss a step I do allright. As of yet I have not experienced target panic ( thankfully) 1. Identify the target 2. Identify the range. Not estimate. I dont shoot 3-d as I canot guess ranges for anything, I have to have the rangefinder. 3. Pick the pin. Yes I identify the pin I will use before I draw and take a quick stare at it. 4. draw 5. anchor, then relax both arms and shoulders. 6. make sure of correct bow hand placement and open both hands. 7. Find target in peep and put it at the bottom of the sight. 8. Align target with pins vertically and allow sight to come down to correct pin. 9. Hold breath, and Hover pin 10 squeeze. I do this every time I shoot, Happens with each arrow. The only short cut I take is shooting from a known range. everything else is exactly the same every time. If anything changes I let down and start over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites