New to Area - Unit 30A Tips

[ketchupcox]

Hi All,

 

I drew a whitetail tag for unit 30a. I'm new to Arizona (3 years) and need some tips and a "where to start" plan. I have experience hunting the New Mexico side of the border (Skeleton, Walnut, Dutchman, etc) and love the area. We took a drive thru the area last year and have an understanding of the terrain. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Longshot

[KGAINES]

White-tailed Deer

Overview: Whitetail hunting is expected to be average in the 2005 fall hunts. Permits were decreased this year by 75 due to the low buck to doe and fawn to doe ratio. The unit contains isolated populations of whitetail within certain mountain ranges. Areas that should be productive are the Peloncillo Mtns, south side of the Dos Cabezas, and the Pedregosa Mountains. Like any hunt, scouting before the season starts should be included in your plans. Plan on beginning your hunt early in the morning and hunt until late evening. Good optics and patience while hunting this species of deer is a must. Finding a good vantage point and glass areas for long periods of time.

 

Areas: To Access the Peloncillo Mountains take I-10 to Hwy 191 south to Douglas, follow 15th street which becomes the Geronimo Trail. Take Geronimo Trail road into the mountain range located on the Arizona/New Mexico border. Areas include Cottonwood Canyon, Estes, Miller Springs and Outlaw Mountain. Because of the proximity to New Mexico, be sure of location to the state line. One major change in access is Skeleton, South Fork of Skeleton, Starvation, and the Old Fairchild Ranch can no longer be accessed.

 

The Pedregosa Mountains are located northeast of Douglas. To get there, take Hwy 80 from Douglas to Boss-Husted Shipping Corral road. Areas include Walnut Canyon, Upper Indian Creek and Halfmoon area.

 

To access the Dos Cabezas Mountains take Hwy 186 from Willcox to Dos Cabezas. Only 2 roads access this area and access is limited. Pre-season scouting is very important to learn these roads and obtain permission where needed.

 

Obtain US Forest Service maps and topographical maps to familiarize yourself with the areas. Learning the terrain and its characteristics will greatly improve your success.

 

http://www.azgfd.com/h_f/hunting_units_30a.shtml

[SunDevil]

3 basic areas (in no particular order) are 1) mountains in the far SE corner of the state (east of Douglas) 2) the pedregosa mountains in the southern end of the Chiracuas (south of the rucker lake road) and 3) the Dos Cabezas. CB

[peloncillo]

Don't overlook the Swisshelms.

 

Keven

[ketchupcox]

Don't overlook the Swisshelms.

 

Keven

 

Thanks to all!! Where are the "Swisshelms"?

[cramerhunts]

The Swiss Elms are on the west side of the Chiricaua Mountains off of Lesli Canyon Road.

[elkman]

We tried to hunt the swiss elms last year. there are not many spots to get in, and the hunting was pretty bad. I would try the area south of rucker lake. We took two 80"ers out of there in nov last year.

[JBONE777]

me and a buddy had a tag in there last year. we scouted that entire unit. found some relly good looking stuff in the dos cabesas. and saw a toad right off the highway. only trouble was we never could find a way back in there. plus all the stories i have heard about the klumps, and the dos cabesas, had me worried. probably not even true, just someone scarying us away from the honeyhole. but we did end up hunting in the pedegrosas. we found queit a few deer in the walnut canyon area. we didn't kill, but did miss a shot at a pretty nice buck in there. not a whole lot of people either. that would be a good place to start. i have to say i wouldn't want that tag again. to far, way to many illegals and drug trafficing. and the deer are rather sparce. we actually saw a huge drug bust not 400 yards from one spot we were glassing. pretty crazy.

[azdave]

No, the stories about Dos Cabeza access IS true. All I will say is respect private property and "KNOW" where you are hunting. Unfortunately, having a hunting license gives some guys the idea that its a "trespassing" permit. I own property bordering Klump land, and have met some of them. Having had recent "tresspassing/vandal" issues on MY property---I can understand their position.

 

There is plenty of BLM land in the range, buy good maps (and know how to read them) and again, KNOW where you're at. There are some big Coues in there. Unfortunately, my land is Mulie territory---they taunt me every weekend because they know I can't seem to give up Coues in 31.

[JBONE777]

Klump, that isn't the real name of those landowners is it?

[SunDevil]

yep - sure is. the one klump had a dispute with the government about some cattle he had running on some property. he got taken to court and the judge ordered him to remove his cattle, he refused was found in contempt and spent about a year in jail.

 

the thing that gets me about the dos cabezas is that most of that land is public land. there is just a little parcel up on the top of the mountain where their corals are and a little parcel down where the locked gate is that the klumps own. they use to open the gate during deer season so everyone could drive up there to hunt. one of the klumps would just keep track of everyones license plate and check for garbage when you came out. they also have quite a few mineral claims, so they went to court and claimed that if someone was injured in one of the mine shafts, they would be liable. the judge agreed, so now they lock it up and say they are required to by court order.

 

just like all the private land in the world, if your a good ole boy, the klumps will give you a key. i have hiked to the top of the mountain over the course of many years and talked to people up there in vehicles, other ranchers, the cochise county sheriff, people that have paid an access fee (not to klump but to his rancher buddy), etc. etc. etc.

 

if it is going to be open to some people it should be open to everyone!!! thats what I got to say.

 

a few years ago, someone gave the key out and the gate did not get locked, so everyone drove up the road. then someone discovered that the gate was unlocked and they locked it. the problem was that there were a bunch of people up on the mountain that didnt have the key and couldnt get our. to plowed the gate over to get out. that is one serious gate, concrete on one side and bedrock on the other.

 

I have also talked to guys who have ridden their mountain bikes up there. other guys hike in before the season and take food and water up there. then when the season starts, they hike up and camp up on top.

 

I have also heard of guys that have hired a helicopter pilot out of Willcox to fly them up on top and drop them off for 3 - 4 days and then come back up there later on to pick them up.

 

supposedly the people that own and maintain the towers up on dos cabeza were fed up with the klumps and were going to push a road up the mountain that bypassed the klump land. dont know where that is or if they are still talking about it. would be nice.

 

the other bigger problem with the dos cabezas is with the deer herd in general. I think a combination of predation and drought have really hurt the deer numbers up there. I first hunted there in 1998. from 98 to 2000 we saw a steady decline in deer numbers in general, bucks in general and of course quality bucks. several of the year round water sources dried up and were not available for the deer. In 2001, I told my buddy if he wanted to put 30A on our application he was going to have to leave me off because I did not want my name on an app that had that number on it. lucky for us we were drawn for a december hunt that year. I am confident that if he had put 30A as our 5th choice we would have gotten drawn for that instead. I have not hunted there since 2000 but I have helped other people on their hunts and it is still pretty slim pickens.

 

Good luck. CB

[ketchupcox]

Elkman,

 

How was the presure in the area you hunted (south of the Rucker lake rd)? I and friends have tags for 2nd season (nov 10-19). Thanks. Longshot

[azdave]

Sun Devil----I haven't hunted the unit, so won't comment on the hunting----nor have I tried to access the "peaks" area.

 

But, I will say that I use to feel the same way you do about ranchers "locking out" access to public land--it use to infuriate me.

 

Now that I own property that borders public land, and Klump land---and have EXPERIENCED what people DO to your private property---I understand their point of view much better.

 

Years ago, people didn't feel a "NEED" to destroy things, steal things, etc.-----thatt is why they could leave access open and not worry.

 

When the Ware ranch closed access back in th 90's, making the FS reroute roads around their deeded property, I was mad---but then discussed it with him---and that was my first 'enlightenment'. I lived in the area at that time.

 

 

The Klump issue goes WAY beyond what is generally known and written about it---it turned into a "big gov" against the small citizen rancher war---and cutting off access was part of their tactics in that war----I know people in law enforcement in the area that all agree it was the FEDS fault for all these problems.

 

The bottom line is that it is a shame that the FEDS don't make/secure routes AROUND certain private property to access public land.

 

WHY should a private land owner HAVE to let people drive thru his property? The gov is capable of creating new routes!!! But no one seems to question WHY THEY DON'T. Maybe this plays into THE GOV's tactics.

 

The mining issue started with people trespassing on their "PATENTED" mining claim land---meaning they OWN the land, not just Mineral rights.

Some of their mine locations were in "pristine" shape from a historical standpoint---and people were STEALING/DESTROYING every type of mining relic they could----to the point of trying to take out ore cars!

 

About them letting some in and not others---well, I suppose whether he lets everyone in, keeps everyone out--or in the middle is their right---IT IS their property. I will let "some" people on my property in urban Tucson, and keep "others" off.

Just because it is rural land--some people think they have a right to use/cross private land--but if you "hopped" the wall at THEIR 'city' house----you may be greeted with a 357 or the police on their way. guess thats different.

 

I moved from Graham county in 96', just when the Klump issue was getting fired up---so I lost touch with the people that live in the area.

When I first found out that the land i bought bordered theirs, I was apprehensive----having heard/read all the internet chatter. After being back in the area for a while and having MANY discussions with others and them, I feel sorry that they are made out to be the "bad guys" here.

 

Again, question WHY the FED's don't create other access routes---It IS doable---I gaurantee it.

 

I'm sure that most all the members on this board are true sportsmen, thats why they're here, and don't go out there shooting up peoples property, littering the countryside, and generally giving US ALL a bad name---but it is the morons that DO these things that are going to cost us more and more access denials.

 

If everyone here scraped, saved and worked hard to buy some rural property, then had it "HARMED" by others----I think this would be better understood concerning ranchers cutting off access.

Now consider a family trying to create an existance for almost 100 years on this same property----and between the FED's trying to change a way of life and the "new breed" of people PURPOSEFULLY harming what your family sweated over, what would your attitude be?

 

This is my 2 cents on the issue---not wanting to argue it, just give it a different perspective

 

ETA: I still hunt on FS land ONLY----just to avoid private property issues---I use to do it with a grudge---now I do it with an understanding.

[SunDevil]

Dave, for the most part I understand the whole private property thing. What gets me fired up though is the whole cutting off access to PUBLIC PROPERTY ON ROADS THAT WERE CREATED WITH PUBLIC DOLLARS. The Klump's didn't pay for that road that goes to the top of the Dos Cabezas. The road just happened to go through a little piece of private Klump property down at the bottom. Because of that it gives them the right to cut off access to a public road that goes to public property. I DON'T THINK SO. Probably 95% of the land up there is public land. Trust me, I have looked at a map.

 

This is one of only many, many instances that are exactly the same here in AZ. The G & F has numbers on the amount of public property acres that are "land locked" due to private property cutting the public property off. I have walked many roads behind locked gates that lead to forest service roads. Once you get on forest service land, those roads are marked with forest service signs indicating what the road numbers are. Then guess what, the rancher has the nerve to lock the gate and say "prove the road was here before it was my private property." UH, HELLO!!! WHO DO YOU THINK MARKED THE ROAD WITH THE SIGNS? THE SAME PEOPLE THAT PUSHED THE ROAD THROUGH!!! And the burden of proof falls on the government, like we need more things for our government to be spending our tax dollars on. I guarantee you, all these access problems wouldn't be an issue IF THE RANCHER HAD TO PROVE IT WASN'T A PUBLIC ROAD BEFORE HE LOCKED THE GATE. I doubt they would be spending the time and money to do that and deny the access. But instead, if the government wants to obtain PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC PROPERTY ON A PUBLIC ROAD, they have to go research and find old maps that show the road accessing the public property prior to the other land being private. That takes a lot of time and a lot of money. A good comparison would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

 

Have the "FEDS" push a new road around the private property you say. WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO DO THAT WHEN THERE IS A PERFECTLY GOOD ROAD RIGHT THERE THAT THE TAX PAYERS PAID FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. Besides that, what you are proposing is easier said then done. The neighboring land could be 1) BLM 2) State Trust 3) Forest Service, etc, etc. That is more red tape than anyone has the resources to cut through.

 

The other thing that gets me is ranchers who think that leased land is "THEIR LAND." UH, HELLO!!! Most ranchers don't hesitate to throw up no trespassing signs on BLM or state land at all. I grew up in rural southern AZ. I grew up with ranchers kids and I know they were raised with the mentality that it is ALL THEIR LAND. GUESS WHAT? WRONG!!! Sure they made improvements but for their own benefit. No one put a gun to their head. It was their decision to spend money improving PUBLIC PROPERTY. THEY DO NOT AND SHOULD NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESTRICT PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC PROPERTY. PERIOD. PERIOD. PERIOD.

[Dodger2]

Longshot,

 

sent you a pm