Developing Loads

[coues7]

I went out this weekend with my Rem Model 700 in 300 Win, Mark IV LR/T M1 scope and fired a few rounds since my muzzle break install. At 100 yards I was shooting a 3" group.....not happy at all. I had my Chrony with me and the factory Winchester ammo (180 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips) was by no means consistent when it came to velocity.

 

I want to develope my own load and have a load that is harmonically in tune with my barrel and rifle.....so where to I start. I will continue to use the 180 gr Ballistic Tips and have a Nosler loading manual.

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[.270]

inconsistent velocity will cause big groups. i've found that the main thing for good groups is a round that "fits" your rifle. overall cartridge length has more to do with tight groups than about any single thing. make sure you don't have a long way for the bullet to travel before it engages the lands of the rifling. there are various ways to measure it. most good manuals will tell you how. i usually load one a little long and ram it home, extract it and see how long the scratches made by the lands are. seat it a little deeper and try it again, until it just touches. different rifle manufacturers have different throat lengths. don't know why, but they do. this has a lot to do with pressure too. using the same brand of brass and same type of primer is important too, if you're interested in tack drivin'. there's lotsa tricks. a chronograph is a must. so is a dead solid rest, not shooting in the wind, keeping your barrel cool, ensure of proper eye relief, length of pull on the stock, light crisp trigger pull, etc. one other thing, i've never got what i felt were real tight groups from noslers. every bullet manufacturer builds their bullets different. different profiles, different shoulder configuration, etc. finding the one your rifle likes is real important. usually you can make about any bullet shoot fairly well in about any gun, if you work at it. you can also about wear a rifle out trying to get it right, with things off a little. make sure the barrel is floated. maybe bed the action. have a good scope. don't expect good results with cheap stuff. and don't expect good results from the best stuff, without working at it. right now i'm working with a new .264 mag. it will put 10 shots inside 1/2" with 85 gr bullets. move up to 100's and the group gets real big. i have to figure out the correct overall length and what bullet it likes best. plus i found i had a barrel bed problem. i'll figger it out, but it might take some time. get a good book that has a lot of info in it and go from there. and take them balistic tips and chunk em in a pond. they ain't real bullets. Lark.

[j-rod]

Keep in mind that some bullets shoot better out certain guns too so dont be afraid to try different bullet types too. My brother and I went out shooting the other day with our 300 ultra mags to find the "perfect" load and bullet combo and we sure were surprised at what we found. We reloaded 4 types of bullets (Accubond, Partition, TripleShock, and CombinesTech Fail safe) with IMR powder. Then we reloaded the same 4 bullets with Reloader 25 powder. He has a savage and I have a remington.

 

Off the bench I started with the RL25 and accubonds....about a 3 inch group at 100....HORRIBLE. His gun shot this combo a bit better but still not impressive. Then the tripleshocks......again......remington....2.5 inch group, but the savage loved this little load less than .5 inch. Now the partition.......remington......2.5 and savage about the same. As soon as I put the Combined Technology Fail Safe in the Remington she started spittin out .5 inch groups or better, but the savage didnt like them as much as he was still around the 2 inch mark.

 

The diffence between the IMR and the RL25 wasnt quite as noticeable as the bullet selection. My gun still shot the fail safes great and his the Barnes. Give something like that a try....we started with about 5 grains less than MAX load according to the book. I also know that powder charge can play a big role in some guns so once you found your bullet and your powder you can start varying your charge......have fun.

[azhuntnut]

I worked up some loads years ago for my 300 win mag and they are deadly accurate out of my Browning A-Bolt Stalker with the Boss system. You can give them a try and see how they work with your gun. They are a little hot, so make sure you have a good recoil pad. Velocity coming out of the barrel is 3250fps. I am using Remington cases and loading them up with 72 grains of IMR 4350 and topping them off with Sierra Boattail 165 Grain bullets. You might want to try loading 5 each with a little more or a little less and see how your gun likes them. I can't remember the overall length of the bullet, but I know they just barely make it into my clip. Clean out the barrel really good and then shoot two foulers and start from there. I hope this helps you out. David

[azdave]

First, what kind of groups were you getting before the MB installation?

 

And you may NOT be able to keep using one specific bullet, if you're looking for a "best" load.

 

Sometimes you can run from the "min" to the "max" working up a load with one bullet, and NONE shoot well----just an incompatability between THAT rifle and THAT bullet type/weight.

Even if the gun liked that load before MB installation, doesn't mean it still does.

 

I start right around "min", and load 6 rds, bump up a little, another 6.......until I get to about 1/4 below "max"---I personally never go to max---and have found the "accuracy" load to usually be around 1/4 below max---or 3/4 above min (depends how you like to look at it). Others probably have different results.

 

Then I hit the range, shooting one 3 shot group in each load---letting the barrel cool between each group.

Do a quick clean of the barrel---then run thru the second 3 shot groups, in reverse order of the loads.

Do fouling shot before any group work--beginning and after the 'quick clean'.

 

I think I said in a PM with you, that in my experience---MB's are a funny thing-----some help only with muzzle jump/recoil, and have no effect on accuracy, some help both....and on some rifles they actually hurt accuracy and/or intensify recoil....I had one once on a rifle that actually got a reputation on some gun forums and was jokingly called the "RID"---recoil intesification device(made by Hesse)---this was on a FAL semi-auto---changed it out to an FSE, and recoil diminished and groups tightened up. Another was plainly just improperly installed at the factory---removed it and all was well.

 

No doubt that installing a MB changes barrel harmonics, and will change the guns "personality"---in other words, loads it liked BEFORE installation may not be the same loads it likes AFTER.

As far as finding a load, consider it a "whole new rifle" from that standpoint---because installing a MB essentially does that.

 

They will ALWAYS change point of impact, what they do to 'groups' is unpredictable until you try it.

 

good luck, and just my take on it.

[coues7]

I appreciate all the input so far. The one thing I need to do is to make sure the barrel is free-floating. It may not be so I'll need to do that first.

 

This gun had never had a round through it until after the muzzle break....brand new gun, brand new break, first time to the range.

 

I have a high quality OAL (COL-cartridge overall length) guage.

 

I will probably be using a full-length die for reloading although I could get a neck sizer only. I only plan on shooting these rounds in my gun.....first time reloading for this gun.....had other experience on others.

 

I've heard a 5 shot group works best for load development and keep getting mixed review on how many shots to fire before cleaning. I did clean and shoot and clean shoot and clean shoot and clean last time to the range and will probably do that the next time I'm out too.

 

I already adjusted the 700 trigger and she is TONS better than the way I recieved it from the factory.

 

I appreciate everyones input so keep it coming.

 

Thanks

[rygo72]

I too have the 700 in 300 Win Mag. I had problems with the Hornady balistic tips. So far I have found that the best load out of my gun is the 180gr. Sierra Match King with 77 gr. of h-4831 and Winchester magnum rifel primers. I use the maximum OAL. This load helps keep my 700 out-shooting me.

[matthewp45]

I would definetly use a fullsize die. I have run into problems with brass that has been shot 3-4 times. If you resize the full length of the cartridge you won't run into any problems. Try sierra game king, barnes triple shock,hornady innerbond and nosler accubonds. One of those bullets should shoot if your gun is going to shoot. As far as powders I just stick with the RL but, there are a million others. I would stick with one manufacture and bounce around within. Keep your brass at the correct length and you should find a great combo. If someone tells you a certain load does not work don't listen every single gun has different imperfections and will shoot differently.

[Red Rabbit]

I generally shoot 3-shot groups in developing a load. I choose the bullet I want to use and try a few different powders. Starting below max, I work up in 0.5 grain increments. Let the barrel cool between each set of groups. Rubbing the outside of the barrel with an ice cube is faster than air cooling.

 

Once I find a load that looks promising, then I load three sets of five rounds, +/- 0.3 gr apart. I try to seat 0.020" off the lands, if it fits in the magazine. Keep your ammo out of the sun; a small ice chest in the shade works well to keep the cartridges insulated from the heat.

 

Go back and check all your action and scope screws, and check for foreend contact.

 

If you clean between groups, you should fire a couple foulers as the first shot or two from a clean bore may not be with the others. I usually clean every 25 rounds.

 

Some people like the ladder method to develop loads. I have not tried it.

 

You might use your full lenght sizing die to partially resize.

 

Doug~RR

[azdave]

Personally, I will always stick to doing two, 3 shot groups for load testing.

 

Here is why I do that---It eliminates "operator error" to a degree. If you shoot one 5 shot group, and YOU blow it, but don't realize it, you may scratch a load off the list that was actually good.

 

With the two 3 shot groups, chances of blowing both groups is minimal----so if the first one is 1", and the second is 4"----it might be worthy to try it again, because the 1" group shows potential.

 

If both are 1", you KNOW its good-----if both are 4", you know to scratch it.

 

Time and materials is also a factor---so doing two, five shot groups is out of the question---if you are to load enough for this---now you have a BUNCH invested in loads that aren't worthy----for me, usually only one load stands out----so all the others are "target" fodder. I simply don't want to waste bullets and powder on more rounds than necessary during "experiment" stage.

 

plus 5 shot strings will really warm your barrel up for this task, skewing results.

 

Just some thoughts I go by, that might help, or may not everyones mileage varies when it comes to this

[coues7]

Personally, I will always stick to doing two, 3 shot groups for load testing.

 

 

AZDAVE

 

Are we talking 6 total (3 shots of one bullet, one powder and one charge) and then (3 shots same bullet, same powder and same charge as the previous 3)? If so I can totally see how that may be better. I was at the range with a guy the other day and he was shooting 5 shot load tests and you could see that the groups opened up as the barrel got hotter.

 

Thanks for you input.

 

Scott

[azdave]

Yes---two separate 3 shot groups for each load----I do it like this: load #1, then 2, 3, 4, 5-----A Quick clean--then reverse it---Load #5 first, then 4, 3, 2, 1. Not that reversing it really matters---just a pet peve thing, thinking i'm being equally fair to the loads ---they can tell, ya know

 

I always bring a couple guns with me when testing loads in a rifle, and will ONLY test loads in one rifle at an outing---that way, after I run a 3 shot string through the rifle being "tested"---I can set it aside to cool and pick up another gun just to leisurely shoot. I save the "high concentration" shooting for the rifle with the "test loads"----and after a few minutes of relaxed shooting, i'm ready for another go with the "testing".

these are things that have worked for me.

[coues7]

Yes---two separate 3 shot groups for each load----I do it like this: load #1, then 2, 3, 4, 5-----A Quick clean--then reverse it---Load #5 first, then 4, 3, 2, 1. Not that reversing it really matters---just a pet peve thing, thinking i'm being equally fair to the loads ---they can tell, ya know

 

 

Thanks for all the input. Does anyone know where to buy sample bullet packs and/or sample powder packs?

 

Do bullets made by different manufactures really make the same difference as developing loads to suit your barrels harmonic wip?

 

thanks

[cohofishing]

hi,

 

I finally pulled out my reloading gear that I haven't used in ten years. I have a Browning A-bolt 300 win mag without the boss system. I got tired of the 1.5 groups I was getting out of factory ammunition, so I started playing. All I can say is keep looking and record everything. I can't remember how many loads I've tried but she loves 69gr of 4350 with a speer 150gr boattail. I never been impressed with speer for hunting and wanted a better bullet. I tried nosler 150gr boattail today; and I back to 1.5 inch group. Go figure!!! The speer bullet shot a five shot group of a half inch at 100 yards. I think my problem could be that I shot the nosler group with a hotter barrel. Good luck

 

Brent

[firstcoueswas80]

wehen developing a load it is key to make sure that the shooting environment ( weather, noise, concentrtion level, very few cups of coffee in the morning) is basically perfect. you do not want to shoot with a cross wind, but a head wind or tail wind is not bad. when Redrabbit and i started looking over loads for my 270wsm, we loaded 3 different powders Ramshot Magpro, H4831sc, and H4350. the groups with magpro were all 1.5-2" now, every group tested with H4831sc was around an inch or less including several groups going 1/4 or less including my personal best that was .184. it is amazing how much powder difference can make a or break a group. not just the amount of powder, but also the type. my 7mag shows very good potential with h4350 but does not like h4831sc. with federal 215 magnum match primers, it shot about 1 1/4 inches, i used the same load, same brass, same powder and chagrge, same OAL, same bullet but changed to a remington 9 1/2 primer and it went printed a .750 inch group, the best that rifle has ever shot. very little minor things can greatly change a load and the accuracy it prints. if you mess around enough, you will find a very good load. dont count out the TSX, Accubond, Interbond yet, also dont count on the Failsafes as i believe they are being discontinued ( I also think they are too stiff for coues and will have a hard time opening up)

 

 

play around, have some fun and see what else the gun likes