What's going on with the AZGFD?

[richardoutwest]

Can someone please explain to me how it is possible to apply on-line for your Javelina tag (or any tag for that matter) and get your second choice when there are a whole bunch of tags left over? This seems to be a more common practice in the past few years.

 

Can someone explain to me how you can go to the AZGFD and purchase a left over tag and receive a tag that is more than the alloted amount set forth by the AZGFD commission? I have pics of three of these.

 

Is the AZGFD just doing what ever they want anymore? i can not get an answer to justify there actions. Is the AZGFD hurting so bad for money they are allowing more than the alloted amount of tags? I guess that explains the TWO tags now?

 

This may only be a Javelina tag, but what about when you do a bunch of scouting for deer, elk, antelope and this happens. You could be out a whole lot of time and money not to mention the possibility of a great trophy.

[AZLance]

$$$$$$$

[654321]

its called the 20% pass, your first choice filled its 20% so it went to your 2nd choice where you drew a tag in that 20%. the draw then went to the 2nd phase where it looks at 1st and 2nd choices, guess what not all tags were picked. next it went to the 3rd phase of draw, 3rd,4th, &5th choices, guess what not all tags alloted for that hunt were picked so they went to leftovers. for years now there have been thousands of pig tags unsold by the time the hunts start and end. due to the rules pig bag limit was 1 pig a yr. was money being lost ,you bet, heres a kicker maybe do to the fact that thousands of tags were going unused posssibly harvest goals werent being met. what do you do raise the tag numbers for next year, makes sense you cant sell the lower tag numbers. heres an idea change the bag limit. make the money you should be getting, maybe meet harvest objectives and heres the drawback more opportunity to hunt pigs that really sucks.

[PRDATR]

It's a G&F thing. They over hired, over expanded and should be referred to as the Bank of G&F. The whole Commission needs to be fired and the department revamped with a new Mission Statement.

They are in hock up to their kids ears and we're their bank. I doubt you will ever see any of the Commissioners dare to venture into the field, for many reasons as they have shown they only care about generating revenue and how many tags they can flood into a Unit with the least amount of Hunter Success. First hunt in 36B is a ZOO.

You call to talk to Unit Managers and never get a call back and the Tucson Office is the worst.

They expect us to just sit back and take it. I say in 2014 AND in 2015 take a break and don't buy a Hunt/Fish License or apply for a tag. Cut them off at the knees.

The game animals in the State belong to us not them. Each and every routine encounter with a Unit Manager is like going through the third degree. They are never interested in how you are doing and consistently treat you like some kind of criminal.

They have morphed into the "Necessary Evil. I know Lawyers that I have more respect for.

[audsley]

I don't understand. You applied for 5092 in Units 33 and 37B as a first choice. Were there leftover tags for Hunt 5092 in those units? There aren't any now.

[richardoutwest]

Yes I applied on 10-6 by the on line service. Yes there were over three hundred tags left over. The way I read the draw, if the first choice is FILLED then it goes to your SECOND choice. If your first two choices are filled, then it goes back into the drawing. I can't find anything nor have I ever heard of a 20% rule. So if I only put in for one choice and the 20% rule as you stated applied, then I would have not received a tag at all? If the commission needs to sell their leftover tag for "harvest objective" fine, don't sell more than the allotted amount set forth by the commission.

[654321]

The 20% pass is they(AZGF) set aside 20% of tags for each hunt to those with the highest bonus pts., they do this draw first and look at your 1st and 2nd choices. Your random number wasn't low enough in bonus pass for the available tags so it looked at your 2nd choice where there were still tags. Once the 20% pass is done you are given a new random number and the draw does the 2nd phase where they look at your 1st and 2nd choices. If you had only put 1 choice you would have gotten your first choice, you would have not gotten your tag in the 20% pass but would have gotten it in the 2nd phase of the draw. If your concerned about the number of tags given out call the AZGFD and ask them if you can speak to someone in the draw and ask why your permit number is higher than the original number of permits.

[Outdoor Writer]

The situation you experienced would be very common with javelina permits because there are so many available for each hunt, and overall, there are literally a few thousand in the 20% BP phase. So when the 20% pass takes place, which uses the total BPs each applicant has, the process continues until ALL of those tags in the 20% set aside are gone or until every person with even ONE bonus point has gone through it. Obviously, they start with those with the MOST points and then go down from there.

For your specific situation, you applied for two hunts that had 240 permits (20% of 1200) in the 20% pass for EACH hunt. You didn't mention how many BPs you might have had, but since your application automatically provided one and you might have had one or two for HE and loyalty, they would have likely looked at your permit even if there was ONLY ONE permit in the 20% pass for ANY hunt #.

So...when your number in order from the lowest to the highest came up in the BP level you're at, they looked at your first choice, 5092, and all those permits -- the 240 in the 20% BP pass set-aside-- were already spoken for by those before you with more BPs. They then looked at your 2nd choice, which still had one or more of the 240 permits available. You got one of them.

 

Yet even though all of the 240 BP pass permits for 5092 went in the BP pass, there were still 960 permits that went into the next phase, the 1-2 choice draw. And if they didn't all go in this phase, the remainder would go to the 3-4-5 phase. And any still remaining would go to the leftover phase.

 

Here's how it all works:

 

Bonu Point Process

[ThomC]

I will make it easy for you next time richardoutwest, only put down your first choice on the first application. If by some rare chance that you dont get drawn then there will always be lots of leftover tags to chose from during the over the counter phase.

[richardoutwest]

Yup, clear as muddy water. More than I got when I called.

ThomC, you make more since than anything on this page.

Tony, 654321, thanks for trying to clear this up. Having bonus points actually hurt me! Even if I was drawn before someone that had fewer or no bonus points, they could still get the 5092 hunt (my first choice) over me because the AZGFD looked at my first and second choice as (one choice). Or if hunt 5091 had filled their top 20% also, it would have kicked me back into the pool and I would have drawn my first choice.

 

So hunter Joe that really likes hunt 5091 and had 2 bonus points and was his first choice, since I had 3 bonus points, I knocked him out of the draw or I have a lower tag number even though it was my second choice.

 

One choice next year, if not drawn, I go get an over the counter tag.

 

654321, not saying the AZGFD should not try to reach harvest objectives and generate monies. But hunter opportunity, really? There were 10000 left over tags! The opportunity was already there and 10000 hunters choose not to take the opportunity. Selling more tags in units than the allotted amount set forth by the commission is creating hunter opportunity?

[gotcoues]

You can put a first choice and then skip to 3rd choice. You can only get into the bonus pass on choice 1 and 2 not 3, 4 or 5

[Outdoor Writer]

Selling more tags in units than the allotted amount set forth by the commission is creating hunter opportunity?

 

There aren't more tags than allotted sold.

 

Reply I posted in the other thread you started on this same topic:

 

This occurs when permits are drawn during the normal process then not actually issued. For example, someone applies online with a CC, paying only the $7.50 app fee. But when the drawing occurs, either the credit limit on that card had been reached, the card has expired or the charge is rejected for some other reason. When that happens, it kills the # for that permit and a new one is added above the allotted number. So if there were 500 permits initially, the next one for that incident will be 501.

 

[richardoutwest]

Got it! Thanks to all, I find out more on this forum than when I call by far! Thanks again..........

 

Gotcoues, I will check into that!