Disappointing Hunting

[sjvcon]

I have been disappointed so far with the elk hunting this year. Not so much that we are not seeing elk (though mostly seeing more deer than anything else) ... but other things.

 

I don't think I have ever seen so many beer cans/bottles, soda cans and water bottles (mostly beer cans) littering the roads as I've seen in 3C this year. We probably spent two hours of the last couple of days stopping and picking things up. At some point I looked at my Dad and said "SCR_W IT ... we are losing hunting time ... I'll have to figure a time to come back up and do a clean up." My wife has suggested bringing our Church Youth back up to help with the task ... one way or the other my boys, my Dad and I will be back up doing it really soon.

 

The other thing I was disappointed with was the standard "Hunter Etiquette" that I always give and expect to receive in return. Four times my Dad and I took the boys to a high point that we wanted to glass, One that I know is good, and where we surely would have seen elk. All four times, someone had beat us there ... so off we went to another spot. Its only right ... first come first serve. That has always been the rule I live by. This morning, we got there very early. We sat in the truck waiting a bit to start off of the point ... it was still dark and cold, and we thought the boys would feel more comfortable waiting in a warmer spot. Our intentions were pretty clear (at least we thought they were). Just as it starts to get light enough to start out, two vehicles pull off the road past us, and get out and start talking about how they are going to proceed. I turned to my Dad and said "Uh ... did that just happen???" After a couple of minutes of discussion over what to do, I started the truck and we left for another spot (with two disappointed boys in tow). I think Dad was surprised that I didn't get out and raise some he_ _. I have not been known for my patience with rude folks in the past (more like the opposite ... super confrontational) ... but I figured with my boys there, better to just drive away and get some hunting in. Maybe I have mellowed a bit too ... which may be a good thing.

 

What the heck has happened??? Am I expecting too much??? I can deal with tag soup if it comes to that, but littering and BS rude behaviour ... just seems kinda wrong.

[Alpinebullwinkle]

I agree that it seems like the "new regime" has not been mentored well about keeping our forests free of trash. All our hunting clubs as well as AGFD need to communicate with forest users about packing in.......... packing out......... personal trash and normal etiquette.

[Hunterjohnny]

_{That is too bad. We just had the opposite experoence up there. We saw no litter at all which is unusual anywhere. We gave a wide berth(?) and had no one come near us. UTV traffic was very minimal as was road hinting. Maybe because I was with all the cows and deer instead of the bulls!}

[Eagle Eye]

Had some guys park right next to us and then set up 30 yards from us on the hillside as we waited for the Sun to come up in unit 10 during the rifle deer season last year

[Coach]

Great topic and I agree with you whole heartedly on both issues. I LOVE Arizona, but I am so disappointed with the littering. I don't know what it is about AZ. You go to Colorada, Utah and hardly ever see litter. Here, it's everywhere. And not just the tossing out of beer cans, which is disgusting enough, all along Rim road there are places where people dump couches, refrigerators, truck loads of garbage. It's like we're missing some kind of "state pride" when people are willing to dump trash all over one of the most beautiful places in the country. Please, when you do your clean-up, send me a PM. I'll do my best to be there with my sons to help out.

 

Rim road runs just behind my house, and many times we've talked about organizing a clean-up, but it would take a huge effort including the local boy scouts, maybe some donated roll-offs. There's just so much garbage it's more than a few people could put a dent in.

 

I've also witnessed on more than one occasion people setting up camp, and when they pull out they dump their black tank right where they camped or as they drove out. How classless can you be, to dump your sewage all over? There is NO EXCUSE. There are dump stations at Big Lake, Hon Dah, Lakeside, Show Low, Heber and Payson. At most it costs $5 and in some cases it's free.

 

As to the hunter ethics, I've noticed the same thing. Your story reminds me of my two older sons' first elk hunt in 3C a few years back. That year a new friend offered to help the boys get their elk and I gladly accepted. This guy is pretty wild - I mean the stories he tells of the situations he's been in hunting Mexico, and here in AZ where it has literally been life-and-death type situations. He trained with MMA fighters and to listen to his stories of crazy situations he's been mixed up in, at first I was skeptical and thought they must be exaggerated, but they've been confirmed by other people who know him.

 

Anyway, we showed up to a certain spot well before daylight, with two youth hunters ready to chase elk, listening to the activity and putting together a plan - and exactly as you described, two vehichles drove past us and pulled off less than 100 yards up the road. He just said, "I'll be right back" and walked up the road the two vehicles. I would pay good money to know what he said, because they were out of there so fast - and when he returned all he said was, we won't see them again. And he was right. LOL.

 

Personally, I'm not confrontational. I even felt a little bad that it took this other guy to "set things right". But to your point, you shouldn't have to be. Those guys saw us and were about to jump right in the middle of our set-up.

 

I don't know what the solution is - other than mentoring our kids and other new hunters. Picking up trash along the roadside can go a long way. I always end up with extra trash bags full of someone else's litter. Maybe if we make a concerted effort to clean things up, those slobs will not have an excuse to add to the problem.

 

As for ethics, I'm really encouraged by stories I read here about families hunting together. At the same time there are just as many stories of stolen trail cameras and blinds, fights over water holes. We just have to be good stewards, and if you know someone that steals other people's stuff, speak up.

 

As a side note, I was lucky enough to hunt "the strip", 13B, this year. There was no trash along the roadways, trail cameras were on every water hole with nothing more than a bungee cord. For some reason, the hunters in that area were very respectful of the land and the other hunters. We need to make that the model for all areas in AZ.

[sjvcon]

Yeah Coach ... the strip did appear to be cleaner. I hunted 13A twice in 3 years (yeah ... I know ... like winning the lottery), and I don't recall a lot of trash up there. Maybe because there are so few tags, or maybe because the people that hunt there are a little more committed, or maybe because the people that make their living up there are always running the roads up there and patrol it well. Who knows. I know I'll keep doing my part. I know that people on this site will too.

[Airbusdriver]

It's the new "all about me" generation. No accountablility, no honor, no integrity. It really gets me down as well. All we can do is keep living the example we want our kids to follow, and hope this societal swing that our goverment is fostering doesn't consume us completely.

[JLW]

I have picked up a lot of trash this past year... just last weekend while hangin cameras I picked up a bunch of cans and then 1 last stop at a campsite that has access to a hill I have wanted to hike around there was soooo much trash. I was embarrassed to be associated with someone like that. trash everywhere in the fire pit all around the camp. toilet paper all over as if the woman in the group couldn't walk a little farther.

I picked up the camp minus the toilet paper but was pretty disgusted! This was in 23......

last year I met this guy from work for the early archery deer and quickly learned he was a road hunter and a litter bug!

he got in my truck after relieving himself and proceeded to throw all of the trash (wrappers and such, some of wich I picked up from a couple glassin spots) from my floorboard out of the vehicle!

I said "what the heck are you doing!!!?" " pick that stuff up!!!

I can't remember what he replied back but I was pretty angry.... the next morning I hopped in my truck to go glass and he got mad and left because I didn't wake him up!

I always thought hunters and outdoorsman/women were stewards of the land........ apparently not!

 

James

[natureboyfloyd]

Guy I was with passed on a smaller bull, at 40 yds, and we soon enough (two + hours) found the females we assumed were with the larger bull we glassed earlier.

We made ourselves comfortable, figuring the bull would come down with the cows in a few hours.

However, a truck must have gone around a barrier, and pushed at least 45 elk towards us.

They passed within 75-100 yards, but the speed of thier escape, and the literal shoulder- to-shoulder grouping of the thundering herd prohibited an ethical shot.

 

Of course we followed on the tracks, but the same truck came up again: "See anything?" Healthy guys, just driving around.

 

This occured in 3C, and given the criss-crossed-with-roads nature of the unit, anyone cutting around barriers is a bit weak.

[sjvcon]

Driving around barriers ... that is less than weak.

[6ANut]

Well in 6a saw guys spotlighting at morning couldn't get their license plate sped away, road hunters with their gun barrels out the window, and lets just say these stupid road closures are a $#@& joke. I was 2 miles in sitting a water hole and here comes the healthy boy(natureboyfloyd lol great comment) on a quad drove around the water hole looking for sign.

[NRS]

On my sons youth hunt in 36a, every wide spot in the road was littered with used toilet paper, most of it within 20 feet of the road. Even the illegals do a better job of disposing of their trash!

[joe hunter]

IMO It's not just happening in hunting it's happening everywhere... alot of.people just don't give a dang anymore... I was hunting in a limited entry area in Woming this year and came across a camp where they had been using a toilet seat sitting on a 2 x 4 wooden frame and that was it.....paper and %$ everywhere. They tore the camp down and just left that mess.

[Coach]

Many years ago, my dad was working for the Forest Service. They would appraoch each camp and write down the vehicle license plates. They were cordial, but each camp knew if they left a mess behind, they would get a fine in the mail.

 

As I grew up, I was in the boy scouts. Between those teachings, and everything my dad, grandparents and uncles taught, you leave the land better than you found it.

 

The first step of any camping trip is to pick up any garbage left behind by others, and the last step is walk every inch making sure nothing is left behind.

[6ANut]

Getting even more ridiculous ran into 3 tweeker hunters that have wounded three bulls. One Guy has wounded two with his 30-30 and was bragging about it. Also for the Guy in the silver Dodge road hunting the I17 from stoneman lake rd to upper lake Mary get a clue.