Inconsistency in bullet Projectiles

[huntjunkie]

Wanted to get some opinions of those of you with long range experience. I've noticed some inconsistencies with the projectiles I've been using. At 100yrds I have a load were 3 shots touch each other. But at 200 yrds not consistant. I started looking for inconsistencies in my reloading. I noticed that the bullet projectiles are not "consistant" from one to the next. The tip of the projectiles very different. I picked 5 out of the factory box and found 3 different tips. ??? Here is a picture of one. This one has a small flange the protrudes out on one side. So my question is how much and were(what distance) would this effect accuracy. And what would be the fix? Also the weights vary. By .1 or .2

[cbryant11]

Is that the sierras or berger, i know they have a tip trimmer you can cut that off with but iam not sure how much it affects accuracy iam sure if it affected it they would not be selling to the benchrest crowds

[huntjunkie]

Berger VLD

They, being Berger?

[AzHuntingAddict]

What about the other factors such as wind, time between shots, temp etc. Do you weigh your components, and is there a big difference?

[reganranch]

What's the round count through your new 7 mag Stan?

[DesertBull]

http://www.montourcountyrifles.com/d2.htm

 

or switch to a better (but less hyped) bullet like the Amax.

[huntjunkie]

http://www.montourcountyrifles.com/d2.htm

 

or switch to a better (but less hyped) bullet like the Amax.

Thinking about it... I'm going to try the Barnes.

Everything except the bullet is precise. That's why I started reloading. I haven't weighed them in the past but I will only shoot the 168 gr the rest will be "short rang loads". I tried different times between shots to see if that would change accuracy all other elements were the same. I even had someone else shoot. It didn't seem to matter much. With this "defect" there is no way the bullet can be accurate at long distance. I will experiment more.

[DesertBull]

I've good luck with the Amax and the SST in my 7 mag. Amax especially. And they are less expensive than the Bergers. You just need to make sure you buy them when they are available because they sell out fast.

[huntjunkie]

Here's the 100yrd group. I did even take a pic of the 200 yrd group. As for rounds down the barrel 150-200.

Desertbull I will check those out, thanks. How many grains powder/bullet?

[rcdinaz]

The meplat uniformity should not cause an issue like the one you are having. For what it is worth I have meplat trimmers (actually the MCR's in the link above) in a few calibers and dont use them much as I found it made a pretty negligible difference for all the extra work. I know that especially in smaller calibers the twist rate of your barrel can cause the longer berger's to be unstable. We have shot them through 2 .243's and one was okay and the other could not get consistency at various ranges. Berger makes great bullets as do many others in this day and age I dont believe there are many bad bullets being produced, your idea to try a few is probably the best thing you can do. Sounds like you are doing everything else you can.

 

Good luck!

[rcdinaz]

Here's the 100yrd group. I did even take a pic of the 200 yrd group. As for rounds down the barrel 150-200.

Desertbull I will check those out, thanks. How many grains powder/bullet?

 

If you use the 162gr AMAX your loads should be pretty much the same as the starting loads you used for the 168gr VLD's. I use H1000 because it seems to be very consistent and the claimed max from load data is about where I stopped. I know a lot of guys push them a lot harder though.

 

 

 

 

 

Cartridge : 7 mm Rem. Mag.

Bullet : .284, 162, Hornady A-MAX 28402

Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.290 inch or 83.57 mm

Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm

 

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

 

Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa

 

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %

 

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.

C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested

loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand

that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet

and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.

USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

 

95 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 75%. These powders have been skipped.

 

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time

% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms

--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Vihtavuori N570 107.5 75.8 4.91 3176 97.4 61000 17371 1.242 ! Near Maximum !

ADI AR 2218 110.0 78.4 5.08 3141 97.0 58844 17677 1.244 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon Retumbo 110.0 74.0 4.79 3109 100.0 58685 15162 1.258 ! Near Maximum !

Norma MRP 2 106.4 71.2 4.61 3109 99.8 61000 15421 1.258 ! Near Maximum !

Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 100.9 72.2 4.68 3109 99.8 61000 15208 1.242 ! Near Maximum !

PB Clermont PCL 517 101.2 72.3 4.68 3108 99.8 61000 15197 1.242 ! Near Maximum !

SNPE Vectan SP 12 101.1 72.1 4.67 3107 99.9 61000 15158 1.242 ! Near Maximum !

Vihtavuori N560 98.2 67.1 4.35 3103 99.4 61000 15281 1.249 ! Near Maximum !

Alliant Reloder-25 104.2 69.3 4.49 3099 100.0 61000 14221 1.245 ! Near Maximum !

Norma MRP 96.4 67.3 4.36 3099 100.0 61000 14706 1.256 ! Near Maximum !

Accurate MAGPRO 98.5 70.1 4.54 3097 98.6 61000 15567 1.256 ! Near Maximum !

IMR 7828 102.7 66.7 4.32 3094 99.6 61000 14771 1.238 ! Near Maximum !

IMR 7828 SSC 97.1 66.7 4.32 3094 99.6 61000 14771 1.238 ! Near Maximum !

ADI AR 2213 98.2 66.4 4.30 3081 99.6 61000 14654 1.235 ! Near Maximum !

ADI AP 2214 102.2 70.9 4.60 3081 99.8 61000 14629 1.233 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon H1000 107.4 71.0 4.60 3078 99.8 61000 14591 1.233 ! Near Maximum !

Alliant Reloder-22 98.5 66.6 4.31 3075 100.0 61000 14571 1.255 ! Near Maximum !

Raufoss RA15 98.5 66.6 4.31 3075 100.0 61000 14571 1.255 ! Near Maximum !

Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 98.5 66.6 4.31 3075 100.0 61000 14571 1.255 ! Near Maximum !

Winchester WXR 101.1 66.9 4.33 3074 99.9 61000 14611 1.255 ! Near Maximum !

Vihtavuori 24N41 109.6 78.1 5.06 3051 91.8 61000 15758 1.239 ! Near Maximum !

Rottweil R905 99.8 66.2 4.29 3047 99.3 61000 14326 1.254 ! Near Maximum !

ADI AR 2209 95.1 63.2 4.10 3036 99.9 61000 13731 1.243 ! Near Maximum !

Alliant Reloder-19 95.5 63.9 4.14 3033 99.9 61000 13818 1.251 ! Near Maximum !

Bofors RP14 ~approximation 96.3 64.4 4.17 3027 99.9 61000 13741 1.251 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon H870 110.0 76.0 4.92 3021 97.4 52925 16351 1.328

Winchester 760 86.1 60.9 3.95 3019 100.0 61000 13189 1.259 ! Near Maximum !

Ramshot Hunter 91.2 63.0 4.08 3018 100.0 61000 13199 1.259 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon H4350 90.9 60.5 3.92 3017 100.0 61000 12923 1.251 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon H4831 SC 96.9 65.5 4.25 3015 99.2 61000 13830 1.248 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon H4831 100.8 65.5 4.25 3015 99.2 61000 13830 1.248 ! Near Maximum !

Norma 204 90.8 62.7 4.06 3011 99.9 61000 13451 1.251 ! Near Maximum !

Raufoss RA4 93.7 62.7 4.06 3011 99.9 61000 13451 1.251 ! Near Maximum !

Bofors RP4 ~approximation 93.7 62.7 4.06 3011 99.9 61000 13451 1.251 ! Near Maximum !

IMR 4350 93.3 59.7 3.87 3009 100.0 61000 12876 1.254 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon H414 84.1 59.9 3.88 2999 100.0 61000 12980 1.265 ! Near Maximum !

Vihtavuori N170 110.0 72.8 4.71 2998 95.7 60541 14642 1.273 ! Near Maximum !

Alliant Reloder-17 84.0 58.9 3.82 2998 100.0 61000 12328 1.247 ! Near Maximum !

Somchem S385 95.7 64.7 4.19 2993 100.0 61000 13162 1.272 ! Near Maximum !

Vihtavuori N550 88.1 60.2 3.90 2992 100.0 61000 12703 1.269 ! Near Maximum !

Norma URP 90.7 60.0 3.89 2991 100.0 61000 12537 1.266 ! Near Maximum !

Bofors RP19 ~approximation 90.7 60.0 3.89 2991 100.0 61000 12534 1.266 ! Near Maximum !

Winchester Supreme 780 94.5 66.6 4.32 2988 99.9 61000 13262 1.258 ! Near Maximum !

Somchem S365 92.3 61.4 3.98 2987 100.0 61000 12199 1.274 ! Near Maximum !

Rottweil R904 94.6 62.4 4.04 2986 99.5 61000 13185 1.251 ! Near Maximum !

Accurate 4350 93.9 60.1 3.89 2985 100.0 61000 12484 1.285 ! Near Maximum !

Vihtavuori N165 100.9 66.7 4.32 2979 100.0 61000 12966 1.263 ! Near Maximum !

Lovex-D1001 107.0 77.0 4.99 2978 92.4 61000 14524 1.258 ! Near Maximum !

Accurate 3100 104.3 66.0 4.27 2974 100.0 61000 12764 1.289 ! Near Maximum !

IMR 4831 95.2 60.9 3.95 2972 100.0 61000 12294 1.275 ! Near Maximum !

Vihtavuori N160 101.0 64.8 4.20 2969 99.5 61000 13034 1.255 ! Near Maximum !

Ramshot BigGame 84.7 58.5 3.79 2967 100.0 61000 12052 1.263 ! Near Maximum !

Lovex-S0701 90.7 60.0 3.89 2966 100.0 61000 12525 1.271 ! Near Maximum !

SNPE Vectan SP 11 84.8 58.6 3.79 2965 100.0 61000 12039 1.264 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon H380 84.0 57.4 3.72 2954 100.0 61000 12049 1.271 ! Near Maximum !

Alliant Reloder-15 82.7 55.3 3.58 2952 100.0 61000 11802 1.267 ! Near Maximum !

Bofors RP11 ~approximation 82.7 55.3 3.58 2952 100.0 61000 11802 1.267 ! Near Maximum !

Raufoss RA11 82.7 55.3 3.58 2952 100.0 61000 11802 1.267 ! Near Maximum !

Rottweil R907 88.9 58.3 3.78 2952 100.0 61000 12351 1.263 ! Near Maximum !

IMR 4007 SSC 86.1 58.4 3.78 2951 100.0 61000 12344 1.263 ! Near Maximum !

PB Clermont PCL 516 81.2 57.8 3.75 2948 100.0 61000 11941 1.261 ! Near Maximum !

Norma 203B 83.0 55.5 3.60 2946 100.0 61000 11719 1.269 ! Near Maximum !

IMR 4895 83.5 54.0 3.50 2944 100.0 61000 11251 1.249 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 96.3 60.2 3.90 2943 100.0 61000 11584 1.268 ! Near Maximum !

Lovex-S0651 89.8 58.7 3.80 2940 100.0 61000 12000 1.270 ! Near Maximum !

IMR 4320 84.6 55.7 3.61 2935 100.0 61000 11429 1.254 ! Near Maximum !

Hodgdon BL-C2 78.0 57.0 3.69 2932 100.0 61000 11605 1.275 ! Near Maximum !

Norma 203 old 84.1 56.8 3.68 2930 100.0 61000 11572 1.286 ! Near Maximum !

SNPE Vectan SP 9 80.9 55.9 3.62 2927 100.0 61000 11474 1.263 ! Near Maximum !

Rottweil R903 86.0 56.9 3.68 2926 100.0 61000 11477 1.285 ! Near Maximum !

[STOMP442]

Its weird that they shoot so well at 100 but not at 200. That's opposite of everything I have experienced with bergers as they normally don't shoot well at 100 and much better at 200 after they settle down. I would do all my load development at 200 yards and go from there. I would also suggest getting a bullet comparator to measure overall length from the ogive rather than tip. This is a much more uniform way of measuring and your problem maybe something as simple as inconsistent seating depth between bullets if measured from the tip.

[Coues Sniper]

My guess is it's your tips causing the dispersion you are experiencing at longer distances. My 300 RUM has a bad habit of deforming ballistic tips in the magazine from recoil. Just for grins I've shot the damaged rounds at paper and rocks etc. I've found that at 100 yards they were still right on with the undamaged tips. But the further out I went, the more they were spraying all over and the group size grew exponentially with distance.

I would also suggest getting a bullet comparator to measure overall length from the ogive rather than tip. This is a much more uniform way of measuring and your problem maybe something as simple as inconsistent seating depth between bullets if measured from the tip.

Good info if you are not doing this already.

[AzHuntingAddict]

This is a great thread. I agree trying another brand or type of projectile to see if this isolates the issue more. Kind of interesting that the dynamics change from 100 yards to 200 yards.....what was the caliber your shooting, 7mm?

[azmetalman]

Take a look at longrangehunting.com and accurateshooter.com.

There is a wealth of information on these sites. You will find many loads, ideas, theories etc. which will give you a good place to start. These are my 2 best sources on a day ot day basis. Most questions posted are answered thoughtfully.