2013 elk recomendations

[coues krazy]

http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/h_f/recommendations/elk-lopehuntrec2013.pdfAnyone else see the tag numbers are way up for archery in most units? Unit 1 they are asking for 350 tags! 6a 775! I have mixed feelings as this will improve draw odds, but will also make for a crowded hunt. Wonder what the reasoning is behind this.

[Flatlander]

Tag numbers are way up period. The reasoning is always the same. Roughly 2,000 new tags means roughly $240,000 in the AZGFD budget. This is the reality of a department that is funded via tag sales. My feelings are less mixed and more displeased to see units 22 North, 22 South and 6A carry more and more of the burden. Our herds can't really handle the additional harvest which is why you see some big increases in hunts with low success rates like the 22 North November archery hunt, 375 tags is a ton on a hunt with very low success. They have to add tags somewhere cause they need the funds and they don't want to give up any more elk than they have to. Its just the reality of the way our dept is operated, not a knock on them, its just what has to be done.

[Coues79]

Wow. That's crazy. So much for a quality time in the woods for those that draw the 27 and unit 1 tags. You'll bump into people all over the place. Common sense should say to move the antler less hunt to not conflict with the archery bull tags during the rut. Give guys a chance to have a few less people in the woods. After waiting 10-12 or more years to draw a tag..... good grief. LoL on the 22's. Wow. Its way way crowded as it is. Gonna be a circus out there now! Unreal.

[coues krazy]

It seems in a few years, units like 6a and 22 ect. will be like most units in Colorado. Lots of rag horn bulls running around, with very few big bulls. 6a used to be a good archery hunt a few years ago. I dont think I would want to hunt it now with that many people running around. Only positive I can see is maybe the mule deer herds in these areas will start to come back with the elk being killed off. Who knows....

[AZkiller]

It's not just the elk hunts. There are way too many tags on all of the hunts. I would happily pay doubble the cost for a tag to have less hunters out there. I had a WT tag in 23 this year and hunted a spot that takes an hour and a half to get to off the highway and ran into 40 or so other hunters. They say they want more hunter oppertunity. What fun is there in the oppertunity to get in a fight over who is hunting where even who shot that deer. I don't enjoy just taking my rifle for a walk, I can do that in town. I would enjoy to have the OPPERTUNITY to hunt A hillside alone. The game and fish department has the hunts so screwed up and there is no sign of any change in the future. Raise the $7.50 fee to $20 or more, raise the tag fees by 20%, reduce the number of tags across the board, cut the number of cow tags in half, have a REAL trophy hunt with no more than 15 tags in any unit for elk at a cost of 3x a normal tag fee, same for deer but have the hunt in Jan. These are some things that I would change. Just my 2c.

[DesertBull]

They believe if they stop baiting that they can issue more tags. That is gov't logic.

[cw4192]

I will have to say 15-20 years ago a December whitetail tag was a given in 6A. 400-600 tags a year in December. Now 50-75 tags for the December hunt. I have hunted 6A for whitetail since 1980, I have seen the population go up and down. This year I had the Nov. 9-15 hunt in 6A and saw more small bucks and does than I have seen in 10 years. So I guess the game and fish kinda know what they are doing to balance the herd. So maybe they might have an idea about the elk as well. More hunters means you are gonna have to get off your quad,ranger,truck etc and actually have to work for the trophy elk,deer,etc. Time for people to quit bitching and start to realize road hunting is a thing of the past if you want a trophy. apparently those that see 40 hunters in one area are on quads or trucks and think that nobody knows about that area but them.

[coues krazy]

I will have to say 15-20 years ago a December whitetail tag was a given in 6A. 400-600 tags a year in December. Now 50-75 tags for the December hunt. I have hunted 6A for whitetail since 1980, I have seen the population go up and down. This year I had the Nov. 9-15 hunt in 6A and saw more small bucks and does than I have seen in 10 years. So I guess the game and fish kinda know what they are doing to balance the herd. So maybe they might have an idea about the elk as well. More hunters means you are gonna have to get off your quad,ranger,truck etc and actually have to work for the trophy elk,deer,etc. Time for people to quit bitching and start to realize road hunting is a thing of the past if you want a trophy. apparently those that see 40 hunters in one area are on quads or trucks and think that nobody knows about that area but them.

Really? This is Arizona, there is a road down every ridge and canyon in the state. Funny you think everyone is a road hunter. For me its about a quality experience and quality animals. Hunting cost to much in gas and other expenses to be a glorified camping trip. I dont care how far you think you are from a road, you will have company at some point with tag numbers this high. BTW, there are no places in this state that no one knows about. One more thing to point out is killing a big bull in September miles from a road might not be the best thing to do. If you like eating elk anyway.

[AZkiller]

FYI, I don't road hunt. Also, 15 - 20 years ago in 6a, there was ONLY a december hunt.

[standman]

It's not just the elk hunts. There are way too many tags on all of the hunts. I would happily pay doubble the cost for a tag to have less hunters out there. I had a WT tag in 23 this year and hunted a spot that takes an hour and a half to get to off the highway and ran into 40 or so other hunters. They say they want more hunter oppertunity. What fun is there in the oppertunity to get in a fight over who is hunting where even who shot that deer. I don't enjoy just taking my rifle for a walk, I can do that in town. I would enjoy to have the OPPERTUNITY to hunt A hillside alone. The game and fish department has the hunts so screwed up and there is no sign of any change in the future. Raise the $7.50 fee to $20 or more, raise the tag fees by 20%, reduce the number of tags across the board, cut the number of cow tags in half, have a REAL trophy hunt with no more than 15 tags in any unit for elk at a cost of 3x a normal tag fee, same for deer but have the hunt in Jan. These are some things that I would change. Just my 2c.

 

Hmmmmm....... Hunted 23 with my nephew in October, saw one other hunter in three days and lots of deer. Not hard to get away from people.

[AZkiller]

HMMMM......I hunted for 5 days and saw lots of deer I guess. 25 or so bucks, 4 in the 90's. I also saw Lots of people. All must be ok then.

[bonecollector777]

This is all about money. Game and Fish claim they are balancing out the herd and all that crap but every unit that starts to produce more elk they just raise the tag numbers and kill them. Take 3C for example. After the Rodeo Chediski fire the next 8 years were great for harvesting big bulls. But slowly, year by year the G and F raised the tag numbers and slowly killed the elk off. What's hurting a lot of units is the COW hunts. Kill all the cows and you won't get more elk. Its insane how many hunts they have. If the elk survives the early archery they have to make it through the early rifle. If they survive that they have to make it through it junior hunts. If they make it through that they have to get through the late archery hunts. If they survive that they have to make it through the late rifle hunts. With each one of these hunts having hundreds of tags! But as the Game and Fish get more and more greedy they will raise tag numbers AND start charging more for the tags. They claim it's all about just getting out there and people don't mind killing animals. They just want to have the experience. Sadly, here in a couple years it's going to be nearly impossible to have a decent hunt with so few animals and so many people in certain areas. But G and F will continue to make their money because everyone will keep putting in hoping for that coveted tag. So why would G and F stop now? More money they make the happier they are. They know how it works. . and sadly there isn't anything we can do about it. AZ Game and Fish is a joke and will always be a joke.

[pirogue]

They believe if they stop baiting that they can issue more tags. That is gov't logic.

 

If that is the case, they are increasing tag numbers before comparing results of baiting or not baiting, (if there is any). In other words, getting the cart before the horse. Like you said, gov't logic.

[Flatlander]

This is all about money. Game and Fish claim they are balancing out the herd and all that crap but every unit that starts to produce more elk they just raise the tag numbers and kill them. Take 3C for example. After the Rodeo Chediski fire the next 8 years were great for harvesting big bulls. But slowly, year by year the G and F raised the tag numbers and slowly killed the elk off. What's hurting a lot of units is the COW hunts. Kill all the cows and you won't get more elk. Its insane how many hunts they have. If the elk survives the early archery they have to make it through the early rifle. If they survive that they have to make it through it junior hunts. If they make it through that they have to get through the late archery hunts. If they survive that they have to make it through the late rifle hunts. With each one of these hunts having hundreds of tags! But as the Game and Fish get more and more greedy they will raise tag numbers AND start charging more for the tags. They claim it's all about just getting out there and people don't mind killing animals. They just want to have the experience. Sadly, here in a couple years it's going to be nearly impossible to have a decent hunt with so few animals and so many people in certain areas. But G and F will continue to make their money because everyone will keep putting in hoping for that coveted tag. So why would G and F stop now? More money they make the happier they are. They know how it works. . and sadly there isn't anything we can do about it. AZ Game and Fish is a joke and will always be a joke.

BC this is the product of a department who is trying to limit the amount of funding they accept from the feds. Federal $ comes with a whole bunch of strings attached and I for one prefer not to answer to those bureaucrats if it can be helped. The simple truth is that it takes A LOT of $ to run the kind of department that AZGFD has. In order to achieve the same $ through a tag price increase the price of an elk tag would have to be raised roughly $20. Tag price increases are permanent and require a more difficult process to get approved, so therefore it is easier to simply increase the number of tags offered. My personal feeling is that hunting is already expensive, and I feel for guys who have 2 or 3 kids applying for 3-4 species every year, plus trying to outfit them with gear, fuel for trips, etc. so if a few more tags in units that are meeting objectives prevents raising tag prices, I think its the right move.

 

If we look at tag numbers over the past several years the recommendations this year show a trend towards what the total tag #'s were at the end of the last decade. If these recommendations are accepted we would still be 1500 or so tags shy of the 2008 - 2010 totals, and there have been plenty of big bulls harvested since that time, so to say that AZGFD is a joke is a bit harsh. I grew up here in AZ but as an adult have lived in Utah and Idaho and hunted those states plus MT and WY, I will say this, AZGFD is one of the very best F&G agencies in the West. Look no further than ID, where public land is abundant, habitat is excellent and the state's population is a fraction of AZ's and you will see how bad things can be. There are more B&C bulls harvested in a single year in AZ than in a decade there, despite all the advantages listed above. AZ is a pretty unique place where we can hunt trophy coues units during the rut archery every single year, bear and lion tags are over the counter with liberal seasons, you can kill 2 javelina every year if you want, Spring turkey tags can be drawn every couple of years and archery is over the counter, and the elk hunting is without comparison, period. There are archery bull hunts that can be drawn every single year if that is what you want to do, or there are opportunities to wait it out and experience an elk hunter's paradise after years of applying, and every scenario in-between exists; hunts with tons of tags, hunts with very few tags, hunts in the rut, hunts late in the year, cow hunts, youth hunts, muzzleloader only units, archery only units, units that have tons of road access and wilderness only units. Late rifle bull tags can be drawn every 2-3 years if that's your thing, cow hunts very early in the year and close to the rut typically only take a couple of years to draw if you prefer that. I think the state has done a remarkable job of balancing quality and opportunity and I think we owe them a thanks. We in the state of Arizona have a truly unique opportunity and we are blessed.

 

Am I disappointed about the tag increases? Yes. Do I think the AZGFD is a joke, nope, I find a lot more humor in the unrealistic expectations we as a hunting community continually expect them to meet. I know this opinion is likely to be unpopular, but dog gone-it I think its time someone spoke up and gave AZGFD some credit.

[AZkiller]

This is all about money. Game and Fish claim they are balancing out the herd and all that crap but every unit that starts to produce more elk they just raise the tag numbers and kill them. Take 3C for example. After the Rodeo Chediski fire the next 8 years were great for harvesting big bulls. But slowly, year by year the G and F raised the tag numbers and slowly killed the elk off. What's hurting a lot of units is the COW hunts. Kill all the cows and you won't get more elk. Its insane how many hunts they have. If the elk survives the early archery they have to make it through the early rifle. If they survive that they have to make it through it junior hunts. If they make it through that they have to get through the late archery hunts. If they survive that they have to make it through the late rifle hunts. With each one of these hunts having hundreds of tags! But as the Game and Fish get more and more greedy they will raise tag numbers AND start charging more for the tags. They claim it's all about just getting out there and people don't mind killing animals. They just want to have the experience. Sadly, here in a couple years it's going to be nearly impossible to have a decent hunt with so few animals and so many people in certain areas. But G and F will continue to make their money because everyone will keep putting in hoping for that coveted tag. So why would G and F stop now? More money they make the happier they are. They know how it works. . and sadly there isn't anything we can do about it. AZ Game and Fish is a joke and will always be a joke.

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