Rut Hunting

[m77]

Growing up in Wisconsin and starting Whitetail hunting at a very early age with my dad, I remember how Wisconsin would start the fall season with archery hunting. Then close all whitetail hunting during the main rutting season. Then the rifle season would open shortly after the main rut was over. Wisconsin deer hunters shot more deer every year than the state of Arizona has for a deer population.

 

Do you feel not hunting during the rut in Arizona would improve deer (whitetail and mule deer) populations in the state?

[POB]

I think water or lack of it has more to do with the deer population than hunting, at least here.

[Willyhunts2]

There are not very many tags for rut hunts because of high success rate. Don't know the numbers but I doubt there are to many successfully archery hunters or it would go to a draw like some units have or be closed. Number of bucks is not the issue it's number of does and fawns. A buck breeds many does so it's all about fawn survival rate and the number of does in the population. If you don't have a good number of does then you don't have a good number of fawns. If fawns survival rate isn't good then less deer all around. I know people will disagree and not trying to argue but my 2 cents

[m77]

I agree POB that water (and vegetation) are a key to wildlife numbers. Also, Willyhunts2 you make a good point about one buck being able to breed many does. If doe numbers are good, and a buck has a chance to breed a good share of them, then fawn birth rates should also be good.

 

So, what's the problem with AZ deer numbers?

 

Again, growing up in Wisconsin it was not unusual to see a lot of does with two fawns each. And those numbers seemed to carry into the deer season. In AZ I typically will see several mature does with maybe two fawns in the entire group. So did the some of the does not get breed? Did only two of several does only have one fawn each?

 

I know a few years ago I took a Coues on Fort Huachuca before he had a chance to breed does. He sure was hot on some does out chasing during the middle of the day. Did that prevent some of those doe to breed and produce that next spring?

[reganranch]

Problems are Habitat Desecration, (caused by Natural Oscillations in Climate also Human Influence I.e. Dumb A%%es starting fires and suburbs intrusion into habitat), Predation, Drought, 90% of Riparian Water sources have either gone dry, or have subsided underground. Damning up rivers hasn't helped either. These factors are the primary problems for herds.

[Coues&Bass]

Whitetail in AZ are alot more reziliant than the Desert Mulley. One thing that affects deer popoluations more than water and food would be predators. Due to trapping limitations coyotes and lion populations have soard affecting the amount of fawns that survive to maturity. So when you see these preadtors SHOOT THEM! Make sure you have a lion tag in your pocket anytime you are in the hills.

My 2 cents

[kwp]

Like Coues&Bass said, a big reason that you don't see a fawn with every doe is predation. An extremely high % of does get bred, but the survival rate of fawns is lower. I also think that it is difficult to see every fawn. Often times I will be watching a doe (or group of does) and then out of nowhere there are fawns with them. Those little suckers can hide very easily.

 

 

The habitat in Arizona can not hold the quantity of deer that the eastern states can which is why management techniques need to be different.

[200"mulie]

Yup all mentioned has effects that adds up.

 

Predators are big problem though ... Couple years ago in one of my hunting canyons there were deer everywhere seeing 9 bucks in 3 days and dozens of does. Went there recently and seen 2 bucks and only a dozen or two does. My Trail cam had 3 bucks and 4 different lions!

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Without question predators have had the biggest influence on why we have such a disappointing deer population. In unit #27 they even had a doe hunt during the 1960's. Of course that was before trapping was banned. There is not a shortage of food or water in the high country of unit #27 but there definitely is a shortage of deer which I question why we even allow hunts in the area.