Ethical kill

[AverageJoe]

I will regret asking this i am sure but are we as hunters supposed to look out for one another when it comes to ethics or just say to each his own and congratulate no matter what? Is a kill a kill no matter how it goes down or should we try to encourage bettter tactics?

 

I am talking about a blatent ethics violation not something borderline that some may or may not agree with (i.e long range, bait, etc..) I dont want to condemn in a personal manner but also dont want to encourage unethical or even dangerous hunting. What would you say to someone that said they wounded 3 elk flinging arrows from 50-100 yds but had not practiced at all and picked up arrows at walmart the night before?

 

I am not perfect and know that, just want to know what other peoples opinion is on this and how you would go about handling it. Would you say something to someone in the field if you saw them, would you mention it online? Is it any of our business or not? I feel since we are all in the field together it is all of our business....

 

Just want to know what others think...

 

[Jbird]

In reference to the 1200 yd shot all I did was ask some questions. Many of us succumb to pride. "I'm going to take the shot because I want to prove that I can make it." I've taken more than a few long shots too. I have a very expensive LR setup and I like shooting. I've never made or even considered a 1200 yd shot on a deer but I have made at least a few 1000 + yd shots - at a range or little competitions with friends. This guy obviously knows what he is doing and has put in the work. There are those who haven't. And just because he (or we for that matter) don't see anyone doesn't mean there isn't someone between the shooter and the deer. You ever had a round go overhead while in the brush? I have. Not that I spend much time in the brush but still.

The problem here is that if one doesn't go with the flow of the select few "advanced members" the person has to take a beating. It's ok. I understand.

That truly was an amazing shot and I applaud the guy. Personally I wouldn't want t go all the way up there to bring down a little buck. And sometimes we're not really sure if the animal is hit especially at that distance. The guy said he would've gone up to follow through. I have no reason to doubt him. I didn't call him a liar. All I did was ask.

There was one guy long ago who was proud of his archery kill. He said he did all this and did all that. He took a bad shot ( the fletching was still sticking out of the deers gut behind the ribs) and he got lucky and found the deer. The only thing he did right was to go back the next day because it was a really big mule deer. If it was a small one would he have done the same? Only he knows. But taking bad shots is not responsible hunting.

And who are the ones who start with the name calling?

[sidwynder505]

Well some people have a harsh stance on both side of the color spectrum!...i know people!! (an i am one of them) that like to "practic the long shot"! with a rifle an bow and arrow!!! i mean alot of hours with a bow!! 3D shoots etc,! with rifle!! alot of boxes of bullets!!....know your "bullet drop"! M/A stuff like that! I think ethics is every hunter responsibility! i know there are some people out there that needs to be educated in the "ethic feild!".... i belive "A MAN NEEDS TO KNOW HIS LIMITATIONS!! ! i hope this helps

[twigsnapper]

Average Joe: I think it's all of our responsibility to speak up when someone is not being ethical. I personally shot two elk this year. The 1st was a 50yd shot broadside and I hit him right in the shoulder. Sounded like I hit brick wall. I was sick.. A couple days later I shot a bull at 30yds and he was perfectly broadside. Shot looked great but I tracked him for a mile and couldn't turn him up. I still had 2 days left to hunt, my buddies encourage me to keep hunting but I was done and left my bow in the case for the rest of the hunt while still helping my Dad. I shot at least 7 3d shoots this year and was well prepared to make both the 50 and 30 yard shots. We had 4 tags in camp and I know for a fact I had taken twice as many shots this summer as the other hunters.

 

It's tough to have that conversation or even bring it up to someone but you should speak up. You might say something like "hey bud I think it might be best for you and the deer/elk/pig population to hang it up this year and come back next year with some more practice under your belt."

 

or

 

"There's always next year and just think how sick you will be if you wound another one."

[rcdinaz]

Maybe semantics but I definitely think there is a difference between ethical and stupid. Ethics in my mind is when you start heading towards illegal actions since that is where opinion stops and it becomes clear there was wrong doing. I am not saying it is worse or better than stupid!

 

The archery example is probably a violation of both. The long range shooting issue is simply stupid if you have not trained yourself for the shot and the conditions aren't acceptable. I passed last year on the biggest coues of my life at a shot just under 600 yds due to the changing winds in the canyon we were in. I had spent a lot of time practicing and I was very consistent at 700 yds and knew the exact elevation to dial the scope in and take a shot. I really did not shoot because at that distance I knew I could get closer anyway so why would I risk sending the deer running to the next zip code.

 

I will say there is a difference between archery and rifle as the margin for error is so small in archery. Also, at long ranges for rifles there are some factors working in your favor such as the deer having no adrenaline rush or reason to run. They also seem to die and not move far when shot from long range or they drop like a load of bricks, probably mostly due to bullet angle.

 

As for knowing if there is another hunter in the area most of the time you are behind glass for so long you know if someone is around as well as the deer knowing they are there if they are close. People bring it up all the time but I have never heard of an example of someone being shot this way. Now a guy shooting into bushes or running deer, that seems to happen more often. Think about what would have to happen to be hit by a rifle shot from long range, someone would have to miss by 50 or more yards, since there is no way another hunter is standing next to the deer during rifle season it is really not much of a concern. It is a bit of a boogey man issue for those that dont agree with LR hunting not any kind of reality.

[Str8Shot]

According to, Coues-n-Sheep, per his letter to G&F on baiting ban " if it is legal it is ethical" so minus breaking a law there can be no breach of ethics... I am sure, C-n-S thinks completely the same way about the banks and mortgage companies, and that they were being ethical when they screwed Americans, since what they were doing was not against the law... Of course, I believe this notion to be absolutely absurd, and inaccurate ( too many examples of legal behaviors, that go far beyond being remotely close to ethical). I believe ethics, and moral responsibility go far beyond just laws, and though measured on an individual scale, they deserve scrutiny from those in this world, whom may be affected by one's choice.

[Hunterjohnny]

I see this is going a few different dirrections but I'll jump in.

If it bothers you enough to keep thinking on it you should say something. But I doubt it will be received well, at first. Nobody wants to be pointed out as doing something "wrong" but given the delivery and some time it could have an impact. Saying nothing encourages it. As far as the internet I personally wouldnt do it that way, that is more of a public attack not a "think about it" moment.

(The opinions of this hunter do not reflect the opinions of this station)

[rcdinaz]

According to, Coues-n-Sheep, per his letter to G&F on baiting ban " if it is legal it is ethical" so minus breaking a law there can be no breach of ethics... I am sure, C-n-S thinks completely the same way about the banks and mortgage companies, and that they were being ethical when they screwed Americans, since what they were doing was not against the law... Of course, I believe this notion to be absolutely absurd, and inaccurate ( too many examples of legal behaviors, that go far beyond being remotely close to ethical). I believe ethics, and moral responsibility go far beyond just laws, and though measured on an individual scale, they deserve scrutiny from those in this world, whom may be affected by one's choice.

 

You lost me? I am pretty sure we are not in any real disagreement.

 

I gave an opinion without trying to get into the various branches, definitions, philosophies, or concepts of ethics and then explained my opinion.

[Str8Shot]

eth·ic (thk)

n.

1.

a. A set of principles of right conduct.

b. A theory or a system of moral values: "An ethic of service is at war with a craving for gain" (Gregg Easterbrook).

2. ethics (used with a sing. verb) The study of the general nature of morals and of the specific moral choices to be made by a person; moral philosophy.

3. ethics (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The rules or standards governing the conduct of a person or the members of a profession: medical ethics.

 

mor·al (môrl, mr-)adj.

1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.

2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.

3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.

4. Arising from conscience or the sense of right and wrong: a moral obligation.

5. Having psychological rather than physical or tangible effects: a moral victory; moral support.

6. Based on strong likelihood or firm conviction, rather than on the actual evidence: a moral

 

Many people like to attach ethics with only principles of law, but ethics are just as much about moral actions... My reference was to the OP and using a recent example of a member who stated that legality constitutes ethical choice, a notion i disagree with. As a group we have a responsibility to police ourselves and try to influence moral/ethical choices of a group as a whole. An individual who advertises his kill with the specific reference to being a very long shot ( 1200+ yards) and tries to say it was not about the posturing and gloating of such a feat is full of BS... That kill was about the distance and the fact that pictures where taken to authenticate the action proves there was a premeditation to accomplishing such a feat and sharing with the internet world. If it was a 125" buck killed, the highlight would still be about the distance of the shot versus the quality of the kill. I disagree with this kind of long shot mentality as much as I do baiting game... neither is ethical nor moral in my opinion, and I am not afraid to say so.

[rcdinaz]

okay

[6ANut]

I have wounded one big game animal in my life and never found that animal. Worst feeling ever (Morals) for me at least. I stopped hunting that day, didnt try and shoot any others because I had already shot my elk, I just couldn't find it. Thats was my choice to make Ethics Morals whatever you want to call it, Doing the Right Thing.

 

Taking those long shots with Arrows that were just purchased and Wounding three elk it seems more like a personal problem becuase one with Morals and Ethics wouldn't act that way.

[Snapshot]

Threads like this open the proverbial "Can of worms"

 

 

Ethics are "Gray areas" not covered by law, but are imbedded in the human spirit....or not.

 

IMO- Flinging "Hail Mary" arrows at elk, that you bought the night before at Wally World, is not an ethical action, by anyone that would consider themselves a "Sportsman"

[Jbird]

Ever seen a bunch of women who work together? That's how this place is. They just wait for another woman to say something - anything they don't like and attack with names and such. HAHAHAHA!

[Redman]

According to, Coues-n-Sheep, per his letter to G&F on baiting ban " if it is legal it is ethical" so minus breaking a law there can be no breach of ethics... I am sure, C-n-S thinks completely the same way about the banks and mortgage companies, and that they were being ethical when they screwed Americans, since what they were doing was not against the law... Of course, I believe this notion to be absolutely absurd, and inaccurate ( too many examples of legal behaviors, that go far beyond being remotely close to ethical). I believe ethics, and moral responsibility go far beyond just laws, and though measured on an individual scale, they deserve scrutiny from those in this world, whom may be affected by one's choice.

 

Well based on your reply.... I will scrutinize you... why do you feel the need to point out another members views (CNS) on a totally different topic and then speak for him? That's bush league man...

[Str8Shot]

According to, Coues-n-Sheep, per his letter to G&F on baiting ban " if it is legal it is ethical" so minus breaking a law there can be no breach of ethics... I am sure, C-n-S thinks completely the same way about the banks and mortgage companies, and that they were being ethical when they screwed Americans, since what they were doing was not against the law... Of course, I believe this notion to be absolutely absurd, and inaccurate ( too many examples of legal behaviors, that go far beyond being remotely close to ethical). I believe ethics, and moral responsibility go far beyond just laws, and though measured on an individual scale, they deserve scrutiny from those in this world, whom may be affected by one's choice.

 

Well based on your reply.... I will scrutinize you... why do you feel the need to point out another members views (CNS) on a totally different topic and then speak for him? That's bush league man...

 

Redman ... I am not speaking for him " If it is legal it is also ethical" are his own words as it pertains to Ethics and hunting (this type of thought can not be exclusive) . This does not constitute a grey area and if truly believed does not allow for one to think the opposite when he or she chooses. I brought up the comment because the key point of the OP was on ethical killing and it seems to be that many( not all) individuals here believe the same way as this highly looked up to member of the site, and they only seem to associate ethics with legality versus the moral practices and beliefs of the majority of people around them.